International Prospect Signing Rumors

Enscheff said:
The only generational talent Maitan had was the ability to stuff his face with fast food once he got some coin in his pocket.
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He was compared to Miguel Cabrera and I guess Maitan just wanted to get to 250 pounds as quickly as possible.

He's currently rocking a .438 OPS for the Angels' High-A team. He's been hurt most of the year and started his season on July 15. He obviously hasn't lived up to even the lowest of expectations, but the only thing rare about this is that he was the most highly-regarded international prospect the year he signed and has to this point has failed so miserably. Most of you are too young to remember Jackson Melian, who was also the top Latin prospect the year he signed. He bounced around the minor leagues for a dozen seasons without sniffing the majors.
 
You have to wonder what scouts saw and what they missed when they miss that badly on a player. Usually, they have a pretty good idea what a player is going to do, at least in the low minors.
 
Deester11 said:
I know right...his Twitter feed was full of the fast life. As in fast food!
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My God, I just looked up his Twitter, he's as big as a house. And there's pictures on the feed of him in 2018 when he's literally half the size he is now. I mean, you have to work to get that big, that fast. He's got Dunlop disease.
 
50PoundHead said:
He was compared to Miguel Cabrera and I guess Maitan just wanted to get to 250 pounds as quickly as possible.

He's currently rocking a .438 OPS for the Angels' High-A team. He's been hurt most of the year and started his season on July 15. He obviously hasn't lived up to even the lowest of expectations, but the only thing rare about this is that he was the most highly-regarded international prospect the year he signed and has to this point has failed so miserably. Most of you are too young to remember Jackson Melian, who was also the top Latin prospect the year he signed. He bounced around the minor leagues for a dozen seasons without sniffing the majors.
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Nobody that saw that kid didn't think he would be great. Hindsight is wonderful but scouts who get paid to do it, all missed. To me, those kids are usually pretty good but the thing that separates any of those kids, just like American kids is work ethic, the want of stardom and the passion to help out their family.

If you followed anything Maitan, he was a rock star in his own head long before the checks began flowing. (See Derian Cruz, et.al). In GCL, nothing he did separated him from Guiterrez, or Yunior Severino. Anyway, there will be more misses but I like being in the mix. Diego Benitez and Tavarez at least have high upsides. Time will tell.
 
Nerfherders said:
You have to wonder what scouts saw and what they missed when they miss that badly on a player. Usually, they have a pretty good idea what a player is going to do, at least in the low minors.
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Based on hindsight accounts I've read, he was physically mature at an early age, which allowed him to dominate the kids he was playing against.

Then, his work ethic was essentially a 0 once he got rich, and he immediately got fat.

I know teams should be able to account for physical maturity vs peers, so that seems like something they should have seen, but there's really no way to tell how a guy will respond to suddenly becoming rich.

If you read KG' chats on FG, he mentions quite often how the determining factor on whether a prospect succeeds (other than injury) is quite often "make up". This makes me think there's a method to team like the Rays, As and Dodgers who seemingly spin mediocre talent into gold quite frequently, while other teams don't. There may be something in the organizational development process that helps instill the right work ethic...or something...into these young impressionable players.
 
Deester11 said:
Nobody that saw that kid didn't think he would be great. Hindsight is wonderful but scouts who get paid to do it, all missed. To me, those kids are usually pretty good but the thing that separates any of those kids, just like American kids is work ethic, the want of stardom and the passion to help out their family.

If you followed anything Maitan, he was a rock star in his own head long before the checks began flowing. (See Derian Cruz, et.al). In GCL, nothing he did separated him from Guiterrez, or Yunior Severino. Anyway, there will be more misses but I like being in the mix. Diego Benitez and Tavarez at least have high upsides. Time will tell.
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Kevin Josephina (currently on the 60-day DL in Rome) was signed for just about the same-sized bonus as Albies. The A's swooped in and signed Robert Puason for $5.1 MM after it was ruled the Braves could not sign him due to the sanctions. He's still only 18, but his debut in Stockton (A's Low-A affiliate) has been disastrous. He's sporting a .572 OPS and has stuck out 129 times in 309 PAs. You mention Cruz as well.

International market has high variability and it's important to remember that these guys are 16 or 17 when they sign, which is younger than most high school players so you really don't know where they are at in terms of physical development. That makes judging the development arc and ceiling much dicier than with the domestic market, especially in the showcase era.

Of the guys the Braves lost, Bae is currently with the Pirates' AA team (and has done the best statistically of the lost prospects), Soto just joined the Angels' AA team (where he'll be competing with Ray-Patrick Didder for playing time at SS), and del Rosario is with the Royals' AA. Severino got bumped up to the Twins' High-A a bit ago and has hit well there. Juan Carlos Negret leads the Low-A East in HRs, but his OPS is .729.
 
Enscheff said:
Based on hindsight accounts I've read, he was physically mature at an early age, which allowed him to dominate the kids he was playing against.

Then, his work ethic was essentially a 0 once he got rich, and he immediately got fat.

I know teams should be able to account for physical maturity vs peers, so that seems like something they should have seen, but there's really no way to tell how a guy will respond to suddenly becoming rich.

If you read KG' chats on FG, he mentions quite often how the determining factor on whether a prospect succeeds (other than injury) is quite often "make up". This makes me think there's a method to team like the Rays, As and Dodgers who seemingly spin mediocre talent into gold quite frequently, while other teams don't. There may be something in the organizational development process that helps instill the right work ethic...or something...into these young impressionable players.
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That sounds a lot like an intangible.
 
Enscheff said:
Based on hindsight accounts I've read, he was physically mature at an early age, which allowed him to dominate the kids he was playing against.

Then, his work ethic was essentially a 0 once he got rich, and he immediately got fat.

I know teams should be able to account for physical maturity vs peers, so that seems like something they should have seen, but there's really no way to tell how a guy will respond to suddenly becoming rich.

If you read KG' chats on FG, he mentions quite often how the determining factor on whether a prospect succeeds (other than injury) is quite often "make up". This makes me think there's a method to team like the Rays, As and Dodgers who seemingly spin mediocre talent into gold quite frequently, while other teams don't. There may be something in the organizational development process that helps instill the right work ethic...or something...into these young impressionable players.
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This works both ways and sorta becomes a "*amned if you do, *amned if you don't" situation though. Those organizations aren't typically "in" on the biggest of the names, making it quite a bit tougher to wind up with major flops. The Dodgers are favorites to sign 2 of this year's top 37, the Rays 1, and Oakland isn't in on any of the Top 50 on this year's Pipeline list.

That's not to say those three organizations aren't near the top when it comes to developing their international signings - only to point out that it's much tougher for their people to wind up with egg on their faces when they're not spending huge chunks of their pools and limiting their developmental resources to the "rock star" 15/16 year olds. Count me as one who would much rather have four $500,000 signings rather than that one $2 million kid - there's a *elluva lot more chance you eventually get some return when you operate that way.
 
Enscheff said:
Based on hindsight accounts I've read, he was physically mature at an early age, which allowed him to dominate the kids he was playing against.

Then, his work ethic was essentially a 0 once he got rich, and he immediately got fat.

I know teams should be able to account for physical maturity vs peers, so that seems like something they should have seen, but there's really no way to tell how a guy will respond to suddenly becoming rich.

If you read KG' chats on FG, he mentions quite often how the determining factor on whether a prospect succeeds (other than injury) is quite often "make up". This makes me think there's a method to team like the Rays, As and Dodgers who seemingly spin mediocre talent into gold quite frequently, while other teams don't. There may be something in the organizational development process that helps instill the right work ethic...or something...into these young impressionable players.
Click to expand...

Baseball America used to award who they thought the best player was in age gradations while in Little League, VFW ball, Legion Ball, etc. I can remember when Kyle Davies was ranked the best player in the country at age 14 or 15 according to their rankings. I believe Jordan Schafer also earned that distinction one year. Now both of those guys did play major league baseball and have at least some success. But they were also probably the first guy in their league to have hair on their sack and dominated the other teams because of their early physical maturity.

Athletics is a combination of physicality and skills. At the younger levels of competition, differences in physicality play a dominant role in performance but as those differences diminish as players age, application of skills even things out to a great degree.

Don't talk too much about "make up." People will think you're getting too close to Bill Shanks.
 
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Baseball America put out its new international prospect top 20 for the group that signs in January. They have us projected to sign their #10 international prospect - an outfielder from Venezuela named Luis Guanipa. Ben Badler wrote this report on him:


There are few players in this class who can match Guanipa's combination of power and speed. He has a strong, compact frame with explosive athleticism, which is evident in the way he moves in center field with plus-plus speed, albeit with a below-average arm. That explosiveness also shows up at the plate, as Guanipa generates impressive bat speed combined with significant strength gains over the last two years that has led to plus raw power. Guanipa often trains at the professional stadium in Margarita, and he shows the ability to hit balls out of the park to all fields. While his swing once had a bigger hitch to it, he has toned that down, showing more fluidity and better balance in the box.
 
Maybe to get more international prospects we should just sign a whole bunch at random amounts and then just spread the money around to all of them
 
zbhargrove said:
Maybe to get more international prospects we should just sign a whole bunch at random amounts and then just spread the money around to all of them
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It is interesting, but if you look at the Florida and Arizona Complex Leagues and the Dominican Summer League, a number of franchises had multiple teams in those leagues. My guess is they are doing what you suggest. Maybe they sign one or two of the highly-touted guys and then spread around the rest in much smaller amounts to a lot more guys. Signing penalties prevented the Braves from doing a lot of that.
 
50PoundHead said:
It is interesting, but if you look at the Florida and Arizona Complex Leagues and the Dominican Summer League, a number of franchises had multiple teams in those leagues. My guess is they are doing what you suggest. Maybe they sign one or two of the highly-touted guys and then spread around the rest in much smaller amounts to a lot more guys. Signing penalties prevented the Braves from doing a lot of that.
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Well I was mainly making that tongue in cheek joking because along those lines are what got Coppy in trouble
 
clvclv said:
Will be interesting to see how long it is before someone complains that there's already an agreement in place when they notice he's wearing a pair of Braves shorts.

(Oops - and shirt and hat.)
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I believe Coppy got in trouble for the fraudulent allocation of signing bonuses to corcumvent signing caps. And was banned for lying about it after they had him dead to rights.

I don't think anyone has really gotten in trouble for handshake deals?
 
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