Is the rebuild in trouble?

As for the prospects,

Swanson and Albies don't worry me too much at this point. They both profile as table setting type players, not production players, with fair to good defense, at positions where it isn't too hard to find players of similar profile. One or both could end up as perpetual All-Star guys hitting .300/.360 and playing gold glove defense but that kind of player is somewhat unlikely for either. If they bust out, what have you lost? Albies doesn't hit for enough power to be a great 2B. Swanson doesn't have the glove or range to be a great shortstop. Your very best hope is that Swanson becomes Jeter lite, a guy who has a little pop, hits for average, is loaded with intangibles and leadership and plays passable to poor defense.

The pitchers were always going to be a bit of a crapshoot. Wisler and Blair are probably going to bust. They were always #3 starter guys at best, so, not making a ML rotation is not that big of a surprise. My big concern here is the inability of Newcomb to cut down the BB's. Fried and Touki were upside gambles. If one works out, then it's a win.

Great teams have great players, not a bunch of good and ok players mixed together. It's several great players plus a mix good and very good with a very few occasional ok's.

Right now the Braves have Freeman - Great; Inciarte - Very Good, then a bunch of OK and several horrids. To be good, long term, year after year, you need a couple of more greats to go with Freeman and 5-6 more very goods to go with Inciarte (assuming you keep him - I would trade him if I had a chance to turn him into a Great or 2-3 very goods). You have to be able to fill in as needed with the goods and OK's and purge out ALL the horrid's.
 
Trading Freeman woudl have been a disaster of a move if only because we would have clearly undersold him.
 
I understand this might be a bit premature but I also feel is something that needs to be discussed. Instead of busting out Swanson is busting at the MLB level. At the same time Albies has been struggling a bit in AAA. As unfortunate as it would be I think there has to be some thought as to what if both bust and what the plan from there would be. We also have no long term solution at 3b.

In addition our pitching has been shaky. Tehran has fallen on hard times and Blair and Wisler have already busted. Also we still don't have that true ace in the organization. I've got Folty and Newk on the list of potiental true aces but neither are consistent.

I feel like our long term core right now just consists of Freeman Inciarte Acuna and Matian.

The rebuild has been delayed 1-2 years with Wisler, Blair, and Jenkins busting, and Folty spinning his wheels, but the rebuild isn't in trouble. Nobody with any clue expected the Braves to win in 2017 or 2018, and they are right on track to get back into contention by 2019.

Guys like Kemp, Markakis, Dickey, Colon, and Jaime Garcia were brought in to fill the gaps on the roster until 2019. "Name" players like those allow the posi-Braves to keep blabbering about being good, and gives the casual fan the illusion of watching a competent team.

Swanson isn't busting as much as he is showing the type of player many thought he was from the beginning. Since the moment he was drafted, Swanson was more of a high-floor type player, rather than some budding star. Most folks figured he was a 2+ WAR guy with little risk, even though most of us wished him up a bit to be a 3+ WAR cornerstone. While the Braves screwed the pooch promoting him early, I have little doubt he will settle in as an average MLB SS, which is very valuable.

Teheran should have been traded. Everyone with even half a clue stated as much from the beginning. The vast majority of good pitchers don't stay good for long (either due to injury or loss of effectiveness), and we are probably seeing Teheran's decline now. The Braves were foolish to think they could keep Teheran for 2-3 rebuilding years and have him still be an impact pitcher by the time the Braves were ready to compete. This FO has completely wasted Teheran's value to the organization by failing to trade him 1-2 years ago.

Albies' mediocre results in AAA should not be concerning. He is 20 years old and more than holding his own. Other top prospects who are 20 years old (Robles, Eloy, Rodgers, Torres, etc) are still in A+, except for Torres who just moved to AAA and is struggling a bit too. Folks need to remember that Albies is the age of a college sophomore/junior that hasn't even been drafted yet. He has relied on his plus bat-to-ball skills his entire professional career, so now he needs to refine his approach. The fact his approach hasn't been challenged until AAA is remarkable in itself.

Acuna should be ready to take over for Markakis in 2019 to join a pretty good position player core of Freeman, Inciarte, Swanson and Albies. Maitan will hopefully be right behind Acuna to take over LF or 3B. About 1-2 guys from the next elite group of pitchers (Allard, Soroka, Gohara, Anderson) should be ready to contribute by then too. Folty and Teheran will undoubtedly be around to fill out the rotation.

2019 was always the realistic year for contention, and nothing has changed.
 
Dansby's defense passable to poor? Where are you getting that from? He's been above average so far in his major league career.
 
Dansby's defense passable to poor? Where are you getting that from? He's been above average so far in his major league career.

above average today with many stupid errors. Projecting long term, I see him losing range over time, cleaning up the mental errors and settling in as a passable defensive shortstop. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see star in him.
 
The starting pitching has been a disaster this year and Freeman got hurt. IF the pitching was merely below average and Freeman gets hurt I don't think fans are that concerned with the direction. There is a lot of talent about to come up from the minor leagues. All teams have an extensive rebuild. The Yankees which are used as a barometer for success have toed the line since 2011. Then they finally got lucky and the reliever market came up gold when they had the top 2 relievers on the market.

This takes time but you can have some fun years along the way.
 
The starting pitching has been a disaster this year and Freeman got hurt. IF the pitching was merely below average and Freeman gets hurt I don't think fans are that concerned with the direction. There is a lot of talent about to come up from the minor leagues. All teams have an extensive rebuild. The Yankees which are used as a barometer for success have toed the line since 2011. Then they finally got lucky and the reliever market came up gold when they had the top 2 relievers on the market.

This takes time but you can have some fun years along the way.

Wait a second...

The Yankees got lucky when trading elite BP arms, but the Braves should be given full credit for being gifted Swanson and Inciarte?

Can you ever stay consistent? Or just consistently posi-Brave?
 
Wait a second...

The Yankees got lucky when trading elite BP arms, but the Braves should be given full credit for being gifted Swanson and Inciarte?

Can you ever stay consistent? Or just consistently posi-Brave?

Plus the Yankees ate their bad contracts allowing them to be in position to maximize the return on their elite arms. The Braves packaged Kimbrel as the spoon full of sugar.
 
Plus the Yankees ate their bad contracts allowing them to be in position to maximize the return on their elite arms. The Braves packaged Kimbrel as the spoon full of sugar.

Bingo. We don't have the money. No way we pair BJ is we didn't have to or felt it was the best option. Just Kimbrel gets us an incredible return.
 
Plus the Yankees ate their bad contracts allowing them to be in position to maximize the return on their elite arms. The Braves packaged Kimbrel as the spoon full of sugar.

I'm guessing thethe will never explain himself, just like he never explained what makes him qualified to be the authority on what makes Kemp an above average player.
 
With Swanson struggling I don't know if it can be avoided. He came up and played well. Yes sss. But it seemed like teams tried to see if he could hit MLB fastballs and he could. Clearly he can't hit MLB sliders

If he was in the minors would this issue have been raised? Would he seee enough quality sliders to work on it?

I don't know. I'm learning the new stats but I'm not fluent in it. But from watching baseball it seems most players need a year or two to work things out. Adjust to the league have them adjust to you etc etc. usually young pitchers get hit early and can't go deep in games.

IMO this yr and next yr should be about getting our 21 plus year old prospects feet wet
 
No to the original question

I am worried Swanson will just be avg. I am worried albies won't hit enough to be plus at second but it's just worries.

Blair and wisler sucking is a red flag

But ender is already a multi war player and is team friendly controlled. Freeman is much more valuable now and they were right to keep him.

I'm a believer in folty. I think he's going to be a very good 3. Dominate some and blow up some.
I think jj has been a good signing and will be a good piece to trade. I did not like adding kemp and Oliver's deal sucked but they made lemonade out of the lemon. Neck has been solid. Phillips is a huge plus armor million and keeping albies down. They didn't know rod was going to b hit by a car...that was the bench plan

I get the pitching guys all have some issue but I think we will get good starting and a couple high leverage rps out of this crop.

To me the big test for positive or negative will be this deadline. Do they have the balls to deal kemp or Tehran if they get a good deal? Can they let go of flowers and jj and fill a hole or will they need them for the next "playoff "run? Will they dump the one year starters and let Newcombe work through his stuff? Can they give swivel and Simms a real audition?

Will they be dumb enough to start albies, acuna, allard or soroka clock?

Given their woes of the last couple of weeks, the Twins are going to be in the market for bullpen help if they intend on staying in the race. Twins' system is pretty thin in terms of high-upside prospects as most are in the major leagues or untouchable (Nick Gordon).
 
Plus the Yankees ate their bad contracts allowing them to be in position to maximize the return on their elite arms. The Braves packaged Kimbrel as the spoon full of sugar.

Like I said, the biggest mistake the John's did was to try and win by 2017.. The trades up through the HO show they wanted close to ready talent to field a good team in 2017. They should have been content with crap for 3-4 years and maximize all the trades. I wonder if Hart/Cox/JS had more to do with this. Luckily, we had some Wren gems in the pot and drafted/international'd well. Also made some good trades that have worked out well.
 
above average today with many stupid errors. Projecting long term, I see him losing range over time, cleaning up the mental errors and settling in as a passable defensive shortstop. I hope I'm wrong but I don't see star in him.

Above average even with the errors. Sure, he'll eventually lose range but without the errors he would be very good defensively right now. So I don't know why we're already talking about his decline.

And defensive decline usually coincides with some offensive improvement.
 
The Yankees saw the massive sellers market and took advantage...we didn't. End of story.

We were on the cusp of the Closer seller market. Giles got it started to an extent.. Boston absolutely set it when they got Kimbrel. The Braves should have set the market, but accepted what was fair value with BJ attached. At the time is was good trade. But since we are non-competitive, it has a hind sight of a really bad trade.
 
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