Is Wisler this bad?

I'd love for them to bring Whalen up, at least give one start. I like Gant a lot. His stuff isn't "amazing," but he's very smart and incredibly crafty.
 
Our Rotation is a hot mess right now. I had hoped that during this rebuilding year our young pitching would start to sort itself out.

Coming into the year I had hoped that Tehran would prove himself consistent, Folty and Wisler would work through their growing pains, and one of Blair, Gant, Perez, ManBan would prove to be the serviceable, reliable BOR type young pither. This would set up a very solid 2017 rotation of Tehran, Folty, Wisler, BOR, rookie.

Well that is not happening! Tehran has proven to be exactly what I expected, but with Folty and Wisler proving to be head cases (even though I still have hope for Folty), and Blair flaming out, and ManBan proving nothing, and Gant and Perez missing most of this years development with injuries, it looks like my expectations for 2017 rotation will be the same as it was for 2016 rotation. Essentially delaying the rebuild 1 year.
 
The big question for the team is what to do with the rotation the rest of the year. I suggest Atlanta rotation becomes a minor league development rotation (that is not how it is suppose to work and likely will delay development of young pitchers). By my count we currently have a 3 man rotation, and a bad one at that.

#1 Keep Tehran as the one stabilizing force.
#2 Let Folty try to work out his mental lapse (I really wish John Smoltz would send him an annoymous text with the number of his shrink)
#3 Keep giving Jenkins the ball
#4 Try out BOR guys form minor (Whalen, ?)
#5 Pray that someone gets healthy / head strong (Gant, Perez, Blair, Wisler)
 
bravesguy said:
Our Rotation is a hot mess right now. I had hoped that during this rebuilding year our young pitching would start to sort itself out.

Coming into the year I had hoped that Tehran would prove himself consistent, Folty and Wisler would work through their growing pains, and one of Blair, Gant, Perez, ManBan would prove to be the serviceable, reliable BOR type young pither. This would set up a very solid 2017 rotation of Tehran, Folty, Wisler, BOR, rookie.

Well that is not happening! Tehran has proven to be exactly what I expected, but with Folty and Wisler proving to be head cases (even though I still have hope for Folty), and Blair flaming out, and ManBan proving nothing, and Gant and Perez missing most of this years development with injuries, it looks like my expectations for 2017 rotation will be the same as it was for 2016 rotation. Essentially delaying the rebuild 1 year.
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Putting a timeline on development is dangerous business. Just double what you're thinking.
 
UNCBlue012 said:
I'd love for them to bring Whalen up, at least give one start. I like Gant a lot. His stuff isn't "amazing," but he's very smart and incredibly crafty.
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So, since it seems we have innings to fill, I would think there'd be worse ways to spend them than letting Gant continue to figure it out. And you can certainly make an argument that Whalen has demanded a shot.
 
Wisler is essentially a two pitch pitcher right now with a fastball and a slider. He'll alternate between a two seamer and a four seam fastball but it's not enough. The sad thing is that Wisler's slider is a good enough pitch that it could act as his out pitch if he didn't have to use it so much to get ahead of hitters. It's not a John Smoltz slider that you can get three of in an AB and not touch any of them. But is is good enough to get swings and misses if not overused.

Wisler really needs to develop his changeup or his curve (preferably his change). Something to take some of the weight off his slider and keep hitters guessing.

I don't think Wisler will ever be a top of the rotation guy. I think he was overhyped a bit when he was in the low minors. With a little luck and development of his arsenal he might be a number 3 starter and innings eater. Without luck he could probably be a useful pen arm.
 
striker42 said:
Wisler is essentially a two pitch pitcher right now with a fastball and a slider. He'll alternate between a two seamer and a four seam fastball but it's not enough. The sad thing is that Wisler's slider is a good enough pitch that it could act as his out pitch if he didn't have to use it so much to get ahead of hitters. It's not a John Smoltz slider that you can get three of in an AB and not touch any of them. But is is good enough to get swings and misses if not overused.

Wisler really needs to develop his changeup or his curve (preferably his change). Something to take some of the weight off his slider and keep hitters guessing.

I don't think Wisler will ever be a top of the rotation guy. I think he was overhyped a bit when he was in the low minors. With a little luck and development of his arsenal he might be a number 3 starter and innings eater. Without luck he could probably be a useful pen arm.
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It's got to be the change. He's got to get it done. A lot made in the off season of him spending time with Glavine on the change.
 
Russ2dollas said:
It's got to be the change. He's got to get it done. A lot made in the off season of him spending time with Glavine on the change.
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I remember Max Scherzer being quoted earlier this year saying how it usually takes a pitcher about 3 years to work a pitch into his arsenal to the point that he's comfortable using it when he wants. Might take a while for that change to develop.
 
striker42 said:
I remember Max Scherzer being quoted earlier this year saying how it usually takes a pitcher about 3 years to work a pitch into his arsenal to the point that he's comfortable using it when he wants. Might take a while for that change to develop.
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Great.
I think if Glavine were pitching today he'd be sent down and roasted on twitter. He regressed in year 2 from results.

These guys need to play and be challenged why we suck.

Hopefully next year we can find a way to be decent. And the following year we start having guys come into their own and be a team that competes for a spot in the playoffs.
 
zbhargrove said:
I'm telling you... I think Whalen and Gant may be surprise fixtures in our rotation for a long time.
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I'm not sold at all on Whalen. Just saw this about his start last night:

"Got to watch this one in person and Whalen was dynamic through 5 keeping batters off balance and not allowing any real solid contact. He worked between 82-92 and was throwing his full repertoire for strikes."

His scouting report on MLB.com:

"His fastball is average, thrown in the 91-92 mph range, but he sinks it for groundball outs and a deceptive delivery makes it tougher for hitters to pick up."

Maybe I'm wrong, but a young guy whose fastball is in the low 90s is probably not going to succeed at the MLB level long term, especially when he loses a tick or 2 as he gets older. He has enough juice to take care of AAA hitters, but that changes at the next level. He will probably be another starting option that is traded or forced out by the time he hits arb 1 or 2, if he makes it that long.

Now I know, "he hits his spots and just knows how to pitch". Problem is, every single time I see a pitcher described like that...he sucks within 6 months.

We have seen countless examples of those guys roll through Atlanta, and every time folks talk about how great it is to have an under the radar guy stick in the rotation. Then they predictably don't stick. I can go back and find literally the same things said about Williams Perez 2 years ago, and I literally replied with the exact same message. I can go back and find the same things said about Chuck James, Jo Jo Reyes, and countless other guys.

Same thing with Gant:

"Gant will never wow with pure stuff, but he has an extremely good feel for pitching. He can move his average fastball up and down, in and out."

There it is: "good feel for pitching". He will probably hang on the back of the rotation for a couple years, and then be gone when he loses 2-3 MPH off his fastball. Just like every other fringey starting pitching prospect over the years.
 
Enscheff said:
I'm not sold at all on Whalen. Just saw this about his start last night:

"Got to watch this one in person and Whalen was dynamic through 5 keeping batters off balance and not allowing any real solid contact. He worked between 82-92 and was throwing his full repertoire for strikes."

His scouting report on MLB.com:

"His fastball is average, thrown in the 91-92 mph range, but he sinks it for groundball outs and a deceptive delivery makes it tougher for hitters to pick up."

Maybe I'm wrong, but a young guy whose fastball is in the low 90s is probably not going to succeed at the MLB level long term, especially when he loses a tick or 2 as he gets older. He has enough juice to take care of AAA hitters, but that changes at the next level. He will probably be another starting option that is traded or forced out by the time he hits arb 1 or 2, if he makes it that long.

Now I know, "he hits his spots and just knows how to pitch". Problem is, every single time I see a pitcher described like that...he sucks within 6 months.

We have seen countless examples of those guys roll through Atlanta, and every time folks talk about how great it is to have an under the radar guy stick in the rotation. Then they predictably don't stick. I can go back and find literally the same things said about Williams Perez 2 years ago, and I literally replied with the exact same message. I can go back and find the same things said about Chuck James, Jo Jo Reyes, and countless other guys.

Same thing with Gant:

"Gant will never wow with pure stuff, but he has an extremely good feel for pitching. He can move his average fastball up and down, in and out."

There iit is: "good feel for pitching". He will probably hang on the back of the rotation for a couple years, and then be gone when he loses 2-3 MPH off his fastball. Just like every other fringey starting pitching prospect over the years.
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We will see... Whalen has walked fewer batters than Jo Jo or Chuckie did. Jo Jo didn't have anywhere near the strikeout rate...Chuckie even less... their minor league track records have been very different. Whalen's stats are worlds better.

Whalen has a lot of motion with his fastball, he will surprise quite a few people.
 
Enscheff said:
"His fastball is average, thrown in the 91-92 mph range, but he sinks it for groundball outs and a deceptive delivery makes it tougher for hitters to pick up."
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That is his sinking fastball. He also throws a 4 seamer that reaches 92-94.
 
Garmel said:
That is his sinking fastball. He also throws a 4 seamer that reaches 92-94.
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I was typing the exact same thing. If he is sinking a fast ball at 91, then that is really good. A hard sinker is a very good pitch. Then throw a 4 seamer straight at the knees and you will have hitters guessing if it is about to dive down or get rung up as strike three..
 
Enscheff said:
I'm not sold at all on Whalen. Just saw this about his start last night:

"Got to watch this one in person and Whalen was dynamic through 5 keeping batters off balance and not allowing any real solid contact. He worked between 82-92 and was throwing his full repertoire for strikes."

His scouting report on MLB.com:

"His fastball is average, thrown in the 91-92 mph range, but he sinks it for groundball outs and a deceptive delivery makes it tougher for hitters to pick up."

Maybe I'm wrong, but a young guy whose fastball is in the low 90s is probably not going to succeed at the MLB level long term, especially when he loses a tick or 2 as he gets older. He has enough juice to take care of AAA hitters, but that changes at the next level. He will probably be another starting option that is traded or forced out by the time he hits arb 1 or 2, if he makes it that long.

Now I know, "he hits his spots and just knows how to pitch". Problem is, every single time I see a pitcher described like that...he sucks within 6 months.

We have seen countless examples of those guys roll through Atlanta, and every time folks talk about how great it is to have an under the radar guy stick in the rotation. Then they predictably don't stick. I can go back and find literally the same things said about Williams Perez 2 years ago, and I literally replied with the exact same message. I can go back and find the same things said about Chuck James, Jo Jo Reyes, and countless other guys.

Same thing with Gant:

"Gant will never wow with pure stuff, but he has an extremely good feel for pitching. He can move his average fastball up and down, in and out."

There it is: "good feel for pitching". He will probably hang on the back of the rotation for a couple years, and then be gone when he loses 2-3 MPH off his fastball. Just like every other fringey starting pitching prospect over the years.
Click to expand...

Gant has some potential as a back end of the rotation innings eater, I think. Whalen is just another guy.
 
Enscheff said:
I'm not sold at all on Whalen. Just saw this about his start last night:

"Got to watch this one in person and Whalen was dynamic through 5 keeping batters off balance and not allowing any real solid contact. He worked between 82-92 and was throwing his full repertoire for strikes."

His scouting report on MLB.com:

"His fastball is average, thrown in the 91-92 mph range, but he sinks it for groundball outs and a deceptive delivery makes it tougher for hitters to pick up."

Maybe I'm wrong, but a young guy whose fastball is in the low 90s is probably not going to succeed at the MLB level long term, especially when he loses a tick or 2 as he gets older. He has enough juice to take care of AAA hitters, but that changes at the next level. He will probably be another starting option that is traded or forced out by the time he hits arb 1 or 2, if he makes it that long.

Now I know, "he hits his spots and just knows how to pitch". Problem is, every single time I see a pitcher described like that...he sucks within 6 months.

We have seen countless examples of those guys roll through Atlanta, and every time folks talk about how great it is to have an under the radar guy stick in the rotation. Then they predictably don't stick. I can go back and find literally the same things said about Williams Perez 2 years ago, and I literally replied with the exact same message. I can go back and find the same things said about Chuck James, Jo Jo Reyes, and countless other guys.

Same thing with Gant:

"Gant will never wow with pure stuff, but he has an extremely good feel for pitching. He can move his average fastball up and down, in and out."

There it is: "good feel for pitching". He will probably hang on the back of the rotation for a couple years, and then be gone when he loses 2-3 MPH off his fastball. Just like every other fringey starting pitching prospect over the years.
Click to expand...

Hasn't Julio lived around 91-92 this entire season? Yeah he can occasionally bump it to 94-95 but I'd prefer the lower velocity with location over a guy who throws mid to high 90's with location issues.
 
Whalen is supposed to have a very good curve. I could see him knocking around the back of the rotation or becoming a decent reliever. Having a very good breaking ball and decent control is often enough to carve out a decent career as a reliever.
 
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