Is Wisler this bad?

Ozzie Swanson said:
Hasn't Julio lived around 91-92 this entire season? Yeah he can occasionally bump it to 94-95 but I'd prefer the lower velocity with location over a guy who throws mid to high 90's with location issues.
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Yes, and it's probably why he isn't being valued as a TOR guy on the trade market. When he was young he was at 94. Now he lost a couple ticks, "learned how to pitch", and is effective at 91-92. When Whalen loses a bit of velocity by age 25 he will be sitting at 88-90 and no amount of "things you can't teach", or "pin point command", or "just knowing how to pitch" is going to make him effective.

Same thing with JJ. A guy that "knew how to pitch" who succeeded with average stuff because he "changed speeds" and "hit his spots". As soon as his stuff deteriorated a little bit, he became essentially useless.

If Gant and/or Whalen turn into the the next JJ, it would be great, and that's about their ceiling. The Braves got a few good years out of him, including one great year, but he wasn't some long term cog on a contending team. Everyone wanted to pimp him as an Ace. Everyone wanted to extend him for 5 more years in the 2010-2011 time frame. I said the same thing back then that I am saying now, and the posters here frothed at the mouth telling me that "JJ is different, he doesn't need elite stuff to succeed".

Same exact story with Medlen. How many times do we have to watch the same thing happen before we wise up?

I was right then, and I am right now. I'm sure it offends some of you, so I'm sorry.
 
Enscheff said:
Yes, and it's probably why he isn't being valued as a TOR guy on the trade market. When he was young he was at 94. Now he lost a couple ticks, "learned how to pitch", and is effective at 91-92. When Whalen loses a bit of velocity by age 25 he will be sitting at 88-90 and no amount of "things you can't teach", or "pin point command", or "just knowing how to pitch" is going to make him effective.

Same thing with JJ. A guy that "knew how to pitch" who succeeded with average stuff. As soon as his stuff deteriorated a little bit, he became essentially useless.

If Gant and/or Whalen turn into the the next JJ, it would be great, and that's about their ceiling. The Braves got a few good years out of him, including one great year, but he wasn't some long term cog on a contending team. Everyone wanted to pimp him as an Ace. Everyone wanted to extend him for 5 more years in the 2010-2011 time frame. I said the same thing back then that I am saying now, and the posters here frothed at the mouth telling me that "JJ is different, he doesn't need elite stuff to succeed".

I was right then, and I am right now. I'm sure it offends some of you, so I'm sorry.
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Why do you keep saying, " I'm sure it offends some of you"

it is a very strange thing to say all the time?!?
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Why do you keep saying, " I'm sure it offends some of you"

it is a very strange thing to say all the time?!?
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Because every time I tell someone they are wrong they start crying about how mean I am. I can post a dozen quotes if you want.

So I've started apologizing beforehand to hopefully limit the number of whiny posts I have to wade through.
 
Ozzie Swanson said:
Hasn't Julio lived around 91-92 this entire season? Yeah he can occasionally bump it to 94-95 but I'd prefer the lower velocity with location over a guy who throws mid to high 90's with location issues.
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I tend to see that the same way. He doesn't have an elite fastball, but he's been incredibly effective. Of course, so was Shelby last year. You just never know.
 
Enscheff said:
Because every time I tell someone they are wrong they start crying about how mean I am. I can post a dozen quotes if you want.

So I've started apologizing beforehand to hopefully limit the number of whiny posts I have to wade through.
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I don't even know why you waste your time with us.
 
Preacher said:
I don't even know why you waste your time with us.
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Because some posters here are able to disagree without crying about it. Several are able to intelligently discuss baseball. Nsacpi and auyushi always post quality analysis. Guys like Matt and clv and zb bring up many good points, even if I usually disagree. Giles is usually overly harsh on braves players, but at least he doesn't cry when he's wrong. Ramadon is amazing when he shows up. Rico does an awesome job with the minor league stuff.

Some don't know much about baseball, especially when it comes to player value and roster construction. Unfortunately they also are allowed to post ignorant and fact-less opinions.

It is the American way! Everyone's opinion counts, no matter how uninformed it may be!
 
Enscheff said:
Because some posters here are able to disagree without crying about it. Several are able to intelligently discuss baseball. Nsacpi and auyushi always post quality analysis. Guys like Matt and clv and zb bring up many good points, even if I usually disagree. Giles is usually overly harsh on braves players, but at least he doesn't cry when he's wrong. Ramadon is amazing when he shows up. Rico does an awesome job with the minor league stuff.

Some don't know much about baseball, especially when it comes to player value and roster construction. Unfortunately they also are allowed to post ignorant and fact-less opinions.

It is the American way! Everyone's opinion counts, no matter how uninformed it may be!
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I disagree with ya.. cause I have agreed with ya..
 
Everyone calm the **** down and stop turning these things into a ****show.

Debate all you want but stop getting into petty fights. This is supposed to be a place for us to get away from the real world not a place to harbor bull****
 
striker42 said:
Wisler is essentially a two pitch pitcher right now with a fastball and a slider. He'll alternate between a two seamer and a four seam fastball but it's not enough. The sad thing is that Wisler's slider is a good enough pitch that it could act as his out pitch if he didn't have to use it so much to get ahead of hitters. It's not a John Smoltz slider that you can get three of in an AB and not touch any of them. But is is good enough to get swings and misses if not overused.

Wisler really needs to develop his changeup or his curve (preferably his change). Something to take some of the weight off his slider and keep hitters guessing.

I don't think Wisler will ever be a top of the rotation guy. I think he was overhyped a bit when he was in the low minors. With a little luck and development of his arsenal he might be a number 3 starter and innings eater. Without luck he could probably be a useful pen arm.
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I thought he was always looked at as perhaps a #3.

I don't think its the end of the world to go down and work on things. some of these guys have to move to the pen eventually. I don't know how important it is which ones make it. I think Wisler is probably in a big group of potential back rotation guys.
 
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