Israel

"...one has to admit that the Israelis have been more scrupulous in the conduct of their war with Hamas than the Allies in their war with Hitler. Allied bombing raids, particularly those of the British, resulted in the incineration of hundreds of thousands of German civilians. Some of this was quite deliberate. As Churchill put it, “the civilian population around the target area must be made to feel the weight of war.” Nevertheless, though the Germans suffered far more casualties than the Allies, no one would argue that the Nazis were their moral equivalents, let alone their moral superiors. That one side is losing more lives doesn’t tell us anything about the morality of their cause or about who started the conflict."
 
"Thank you Netanyahu and may God give us more [people] like you to destroy Hamas!”

What’s this? The ravings of a fundamentalist Jewish settler in Gush Etzion? Congratulations from a Christian Zionist hunkered down in his bomb shelter somewhere in the Deep South?

Actually, no. It’s a Twitter message sent out by Azza Sami, who writes for the Egyptian newspaper Al-Ahram. Her sentiments are widely shared in Egypt. Why? Because the Egyptians have had firsthand experience of what the Muslim Brotherhood does once it gets in power and they know that Hamas is the Palestinian branch of the Muslim Brotherhood and, if anything, far more brutal than the Egyptian version. They also know that Hamas allied itself with the Muslim Brotherhood in its assaults on Egyptian soldiers and citizens. Speaking for many Egyptians, actor Amr Mustafa told Palestinians they should not expect any relief aid from Egypt until they “get rid of Hamas.” He added, “We’ve had enough of what you did to our country.”

Hamas are terrorists pure and simple. The Egyptians get it..."
 
So using human shields being used has not been historically accurate in any engagement that any country has had with Islamic Fundamentalists?
 
zitothebrave said:
The problem is that aside from what's coming from the Israel War propaganda machine there's no evidence of that.

This is from 2009 when Israel claimed the same thing (human shields) as reason for an impressively high civilian casualty rate. This is from AMnesty International

in the cases of [Israeli] precision missiles or tank shells which killed [Palestinian] civilians in their homes, no fighters were present in the houses that were struck and Amnesty International delegates found no indication that there had been any armed confrontations or other military activity in the immediate vicinity at the time of the attack.

This is an article from Human Rights Watch (which I don't expect you to read)

http://www.hrw.org/news/2014/07/15/israelpalestine-unlawful-israeli-airstrikes-kill-civilians
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How is it known if fighters were present in the house when they do not delineate themselves from the general population? You are fighting an opponent that has no distinguishable characteristics in terms of attire. Someone who is civilian could easily be a fighter and nobody would know.
 
zitothebrave said:
If I had to guess, it has to do with either people with ties to Hamas or actively engaged in Palestine's military. Then again, I'm not an expert. What I do know is that in all of the conflicts between these 2 nations recently a disproportionate amount of Palestine civilians are killed. This isn't WWII as that article talked about. This is a country using precision guided weapons with little active resistance for those weapons.
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So because one nation has an inferior military force than the other the big boy has to play nice while the other agitates? Why do you have this notion that war should be fair?

Was war fair when we bombed Hiroshima/Nagasaki? Was war fair when the Nazi's rounded up Jews by the millions and threw them into ovens?

We could go back into history for hundreds of examples. Hamas has broken a ceasefire agreement. Israel is not just going to sit on its hands and hope Hamas stops.
 
OK i think this debate has ran it's course. There's been entirely too many Nazi references made. I'm out it's not worth debating if everything is justifiable because the Nazi's did something or something was done against the Nazis.
 
So why not respond to the point of historical evidence of Islamic Fundalmentalists using human shields. All of a sudden Hamas isn't doing that?
 
Sorry, this thread is dead to me. I'm not discussing it any further. It's obvious there won't be an honest discourse going on without resulting in Nazis. I'm invoking a form of Godwin's Law killing this thread before it further derails into hyperbolic BS and isn't about what's going on in the world or in the original context of the thread.
 
zitothebrave said:
....
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Good, I'm glad you stopped ignoring it. That's a step in the right direction. Getting your head out of the sand. That's good. We are making progress. Maybe you'll revaluate your Hamas support.

Hardly enough? Hardly enough? Dang dude, you want them to send in transport vans to take and put Palestinians up in a kibbutz?

You've lost it in your hatred of Israel. This is a war Z.
 
Where did the Z posts go?

Listen Z, it's easy to get caught up in the propaganda from both sides. I get it. I'm no Christian Zionist when it comes to Israel. I think the there's much that Israel needs to clamp down on.

I'm also actually with the Palestinians in several of their concerns - especially the concerns of Palestinian Christians, the ones who get crapped on the most. I've met and conversed and worshiped with many of them. So don't get me wrong in this discussion.

But where I draw the line is with Hamas and Islamic Jihad. They are thugs. They are terrorists. And they really harm the cause of Palestinians in their vile, vile hatred of the Jews.

And their naive Western supporters or enablers are a huge problem in all this - like my "Israel can do no wrong" Evangelical Christians. Both groups need to wake up, smell the coffee and stop being a part of the problem.

Because dang it, I want access to Taybeh!
 
Zito took his ball and went home. Israel is by no means an innocent bystander in this but to sit here and try and defend Hamas is disgusting. These Islamic Fundamentalist groups are the scum of the earth with how they regard human life (both Muslims and Jews).
 
taybeh+peace.jpg
 
Krgrecw said:
Arab media outlets are now going off on Hamas for endangering innocent lives.
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They always done that.

They don't have many friends in the Muslim world because they waste lives of those that protect them. The Gazans are scared too death in turning them in because if they somehow survive, they will kill their family.
 
I don't agree with Israeli's killing civilians at all, but Hamas needs to talk and not say we will not stop until Israel is dead rhetoric. Only corrupt Turkey (Edrogen is the dirties they had in history) and insignificant Qatar is siding with them.

Only 2 countries? Hamas is truly hated in the Arab world to only get this backing and they hope the UN will do something? LMAO, they are a thorn in the UN side.
 
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