Jeb Bush: People Need to Work Longer Hours...

[weso1]

cause poor people have a lot of options to do this

I think all you need is a DL and a bit of cash to rent a UHAUL. Tons of poor people move with ease. I did it when I was young and making only slightly more than min wage. It's easy to find a min wage job in multiple states with min wage higher than federal min wage. That was a lot of min wages in that sentence.

 

[goldfly]

yeah, moving across country is an easy thing to do for someone making 290 a week before taxes after working 40 hours

i mean hell, weso kind of did it

 

[ESP47]

I don't know why they cna't afford to hire 3 people at $10. Maybe because the government has over-reugluated the hell out of starting a business that it's nearly impossible to do these days, and every penny is sacred.

You do realize that Walmart's profit margin is a whopping 3.3%. Their operating margin is like 5%. They do everything they can to cut costs out of their products so it is cheaper. You force them to raise their pay, they either hire less people (less jobs) or raise their prices (which hurts poor people)

You're mad at the wage gap. We get it. But the minimum wage has nothing to do with it. It's the free money over the last few decades (and especially since 2009). That money went straight to the top. It went to the banks. The rich people borrowed. The rich invested. The rich got richer. If you want to blame the wage gap - look at your government and the federal reserve.

Why do you think small businesses have been over regulated? Serious question.

Are you trying to make me think that one of the most profitable corporations in the world would need to hire less people and raise their prices just to stay afloat? They would do just fine. Why is it that the poor and middle class need to lower their quality of life while the rich don't?

The wage gap is there because of the gov, the fed reserve and greed. How would lowering minimum wage have nothing to do with the wage gap? The poor would make less while the rich would make more due to paying less for the same production. Wage gap widens.

 

[Hawk]

Hardly. I'm all for capitalism but it obviously doesn't work when you have greedy money/power hungry people who want to dominate the world with no regard for anything other than their bank accounts. I think there should be a wage gap. You should get paid more if you're smarter or if you work harder. There is just absolutely no need for the gap to be insanely as large as it is to the point where children are working for pennies to make one guy rich. Why do you support a system like this? These assholes are running wild on us and you guys seem to want to give them even more freedom to do as they wish.

Where in the United States are 'children working for pennies to make one guy rich'? You want to talk about people being out of touch with reality -- and then you make statements like that.

Nobody here is treating the status quo as idyllic, but ultimately the system is going to continue to evolve based on the decisions these 'assholes' (aka organized government) make. That is entirely out of our control, unless you want to start a revolution and begin again (hence my comments RE: anarcho-communism).

The country wasn't always like this. It's never been perfect but we didn't live in an anarchist communist society when products were being made here by hard working people that were able to bring home enough money to buy a house, car and raise their children comfortably. If wanting that makes me a communist then **** it, I'm a communist.

Hello Military Industrial Complex.

To me, it makes you brain washed for wanting to give rights to the very people who lobby to have your rights taken away....but hey what do I know. Keep on supporting those who oppress you in the name of freedom.

This is just histrionic rhetoric. What rights have been taken away? What oppressions have been levied?

 

[weso1]

yeah, moving across country is an easy thing to do for someone making 290 a week before taxes after working 40 hours

i mean hell, weso kind of did it

It's not easy but obviously very doable. Almost everyone has to do things that aren't easy. But that's absolutely what I would do. Lots of folks have done it.

 

[weso1]

We've got super poor illegal immigrants moving large distance in crowded trucks, by foot, by small boats to come to the US for better work opportunities and living conditions and goldfly thinks min wage workers in the US can't move because it's not easy.

 

[gilesfan]

I didn't say they needed to make more.

Minimum wage should allow you to enough money to live, just uncomfortably. I've never looked down on a worker at McDonalds and thought that this person shouldn't even be allowed to live in an apartment with a roommate and be afforded medical care. Maybe they're dumb, maybe their lazy or maybe they've just fallen on hard times? Either way they are performing a service that requires some sort of effort and they should be compensated at minimum for that.

I think that min wage and welfare should be equivalent to living at your parents house when they no longer want you there. Yeah you can live like that, but it should be so uncomfortable that you're forced to put in the effort to get out of that situation.

Lowering minimum wage just forces people to become more reliant on social programs. They're going to need to be on welfare to just provide themselves with the basic needs to survive if they can't live at home. You're taking the people who put in the effort to go to school while working and basically making it so they either can't afford school or they have to financial aid to go.

I've lived off minimum wage and did so while attending school full-time. I know what its like to "live uncomfortably." I worked 40 hours per week making $6/hour; cleaned an office building at night for $50/week and took a part time job working 8 hours either Saturday or Sunday for another $6/hour. My wife did the same thing as I. That comes out to $2,312/month between 2 people. Of that we paid $700/month for a tiny apartment, paid for vehicles, and ate the hell out of oodles and noodles and PBJ sandwiches. This was without government assistance, which Im sure could have been done (low income housing deal) if I would have know to apply for it and without Obamacare. It certainly can be done, but it takes some hustle from people. Some people aren't willing to work hard.

 

[goldfly]

i just understand there are other things in play than just picking up and moving for an extra 5 to 7 dollars an hour

 

[ESP47]

Where in the United States are 'children working for pennies to make one guy rich'? You want to talk about people being out of touch with reality -- and then you make statements like that.

Nobody here is treating the status quo as idyllic, but ultimately the system is going to continue to evolve based on the decisions these 'assholes' (aka organized government) make. That is entirely out of our control, unless you want to start a revolution and begin again (hence my comments RE: anarcho-communism).

Hello Military Industrial Complex.

This is just histrionic rhetoric. What rights have been taken away? What oppressions have been levied?

I didn't say the kids working for pennies were in the United States. They're in 3rd world countries doing the jobs Americans used to do before the American companies outsourced them for more profit.

What exactly makes the organized government assholes Hawk? Are politicians just assholes to begin with or do they make asshole moves because they are paid "aka lobbied" to make them? And where does that money come from? Usually from big business. They are one in the same. What you folks are suggesting we do is make it to where they don't even have to lobby the government to get what they want. I'm suggesting the government is to be used to protect us from them and that's not going to happen until lobbying is outlawed.

The right to privacy. Unreasonable searches and seizures. Remember back when you were able to eat non modified food at market price? Remember when you were able to buy American made products for a reasonable price? What about cancer cures being outlawed by big pharma? What about gas savers being bought up/threatened/killed by oil companies? Official "scientific" studies paid for by companies that are a direct conflict of interest. There's a ton of things out there that have been oppressed in the name of big business. Things that could have made your life a lot better.

Seems like you folks have a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome. Lessen your quality of life to the point where you start defending those who hold you back. It's just weird to me.

 

[sturg33]

Why do you think small businesses have been over regulated? Serious question.

Are you trying to make me think that one of the most profitable corporations in the world would need to hire less people and raise their prices just to stay afloat? They would do just fine. Why is it that the poor and middle class need to lower their quality of life while the rich don't?

The wage gap is there because of the gov, the fed reserve and greed. How would lowering minimum wage have nothing to do with the wage gap? The poor would make less while the rich would make more due to paying less for the same production. Wage gap widens.

So you're suggesting that a 3.3% profit margin for a company is too high?

Do you hear how ridiculous that sounds? Many companies would have to close up on shop on

 

[ESP47]

I've lived off minimum wage and did so while attending school full-time. I know what its like to "live uncomfortably." I worked 40 hours per week making $6/hour; cleaned an office building at night for $50/week and took a part time job working 8 hours either Saturday or Sunday for another $6/hour. My wife did the same thing as I. That comes out to $2,312/month between 2 people. Of that we paid $700/month for a tiny apartment, paid for vehicles, and ate the hell out of oodles and noodles and PBJ sandwiches. This was without government assistance, which Im sure could have been done (low income housing deal) if I would have know to apply for it and without Obamacare. It certainly can be done, but it takes some hustle from people. Some people aren't willing to work hard.

You and your lady did it the right way giles. That's why you're most likely living in a nice house while being able to afford most of the things you want to do. That should be your reward for busting your ass and workout yourself out of minimum wage. The people that don't want to work as hard as you should be relegated to living in crappy apartments with roommates while eating ramen and PB&J. If they are happy living that way and don't want to put in the effort to better themselves then that's perfectly fine. But to lower their wages even more to where they don't even have a shot at success is where I have a problem. Imagine trying to get out of your situation if you're only getting paid 1/3 of what you made in the first place. As a society, we shouldn't have to work 60+ hours a week while going to school full time and living in a halfway house to make a decent wage. IMO that's what we are setting people up to do if we abolish minimum wage.

So you're suggesting that a 3.3% profit margin for a company is too high?

Do you hear how ridiculous that sounds? Many companies would have to close up on shop on

 

[Hawk]

I didn't say the kids working for pennies were in the United States. They're in 3rd world countries doing the jobs Americans used to do before the American companies outsourced them for more profit.

What exactly makes the organized government assholes Hawk? Are politicians just assholes to begin with or do they make asshole moves because they are paid "aka lobbied" to make them? And where does that money come from? Usually from big business. They are one in the same. What you folks are suggesting we do is make it to where they don't even have to lobby the government to get what they want. I'm suggesting the government is to be used to protect us from them and that's not going to happen until lobbying is outlawed.

The right to privacy. Unreasonable searches and seizures. Remember back when you were able to eat non modified food at market price? Remember when you were able to buy American made products for a reasonable price? What about cancer cures being outlawed by big pharma? What about gas savers being bought up/threatened/killed by oil companies? Official "scientific" studies paid for by companies that are a direct conflict of interest. There's a ton of things out there that have been oppressed in the name of big business. Things that could have made your life a lot better.

Seems like you folks have a bad case of Stockholm Syndrome. Lessen your quality of life to the point where you start defending those who hold you back. It's just weird to me.

Dude, that's not just your boogeyman 'big business' -- that's greed. And that's capitalism. GG. Greed is go(o)d. Gordon Gekko.

So now we've managed to transition from anarcho-communist worldviews to moral absolutes.

Also, what does privacy and unreasonable searches and seizures have to do with your corporatist excess spiel? Are we also expected to blame business for that?

It's really easy to cherry-pick the things you dislike about organized government and shake your finger at the system from a safe distance, but it's also pretty rottenly hypocritical.

 

[ESP47]

Dude, that's not just your boogeyman 'big business' -- that's greed. And that's capitalism. GG. Greed is go(o)d. Gordon Gekko.

So now we've managed to transition from anarcho-communist worldviews to moral absolutes.

It's really easy to cherry-pick the things you dislike about organized government and shake your finger at the system from a safe distance, but it's also pretty rottenly hypocritical.

You asked me what rights have been taken away and oppressions levied. I answered the ones I could think of off the top of my head. What else could I have done there? So far all you're doing is asking me questions and then trying to place me under some label instead of discussing the actual topic. I've been asking you and sturg a ton of questions and you've both pretty much ignored the ones you can't answer/don't want to answer and have cherry picked the ones you can. Who's being hypocritical now?

 

[Hawk]

You asked me what rights have been taken away and oppressions levied. I answered the ones I could think of off the top of my head. What else could I have done there? So far all you're doing is asking me questions and then trying to place me under some label instead of discussing the actual topic. I've been asking you and sturg a ton of questions and you've both pretty much ignored the ones you can't answer/don't want to answer and have cherry picked the ones you can. Who's being hypocritical now?

I don't really know how to answer the 'How does it feel to be skull-****ed by big business?' type questions, because I'm not particularly interested in subjective discussion. I'll save that for AA.

You've labeled yourself with comments and derisions in this thread, and that's cool -- I just provided a definition of your beliefs based upon the views/opinions espoused so far; you don't believe in our system of government (well, you do, but technically only the way things used to be ... before what happened, who knows) or economy, you consider yourself a better option at President than any of the candidates, you believe that you will retain your personal morality no matter the circumstance. It's a pretty simple formula.

Of course, no meaningful solutions have been proffered on your part, yet you have mocked people who have at least submitted ideas germane to realistic progress. Instead, they're 'brainwashed' or 'delusional' or 'stupid' or whatever. Right.

I respect your passion for a better society/world, it's certainly admirable and from the heart, but you are have a difficult time delivering your vision in a meaningful way.

 

[ESP47]

I don't really know how to answer the 'How does it feel to be skull-****ed by big business?' type questions, because I'm not particularly interested in subjective discussion. I'll save that for AA.

You've labeled yourself with comments and derisions in this thread, and that's cool -- I just provided a definition of your beliefs based upon the views/opinions espoused so far; you don't believe in our system of government (well, you do, but technically only the way things used to be ... before what happened, who knows) or economy, you consider yourself a better option at President than any of the candidates, you believe that you will retain your personal morality no matter the circumstance. It's a pretty simple formula.

Of course, no meaningful solutions have been proffered on your part, yet you have mocked people who have at least submitted ideas germane to realistic progress. Instead, they're 'brainwashed' or 'delusional' or 'stupid' or whatever. Right.

I respect your passion for a better society/world, it's certainly admirable and from the heart, but you are have a difficult time delivering your vision in a meaningful way.

You do realize that the annoying qualities you're calling me out for are the exact same ones you're using against me, right?

I know, I know Hawk. I'm a (scary propaganda label) because one of my beliefs doesn't coincide with the right wingers handbook. I also know that once someone is labeled a (scary propaganda label), it makes it real easy to discredit everything they say thereafter regardless of how much it may make sense. The whole labeling thing is so ridiculous. I have many, many beliefs and they aren't all covered under one label. Take that amateur hour labeling garbage elsewhere.

I gave my thoughts on the subjects and I expressed my disagreements on some others. I answered as many questions as I could from you guys and when I asked questions you guys ignored them or regurgitated them in the form of "What does it feel like to be skull ****ed by big business?"...which was obviously never asked. I asked you a serious question about why you think the government are assholes because I actually wanted to know why you think that way. I asked sturg why he thought small business was over regulated and he never answered either. I thought both questions could have led to solid discussions but both were skirted.

We elect these people into office to discuss these issues and figure them out for us. It's their full time job to figure this **** out. It's what they get paid for. None of us are qualified to really figure any of this out. We don't have the time to figure out the pros and cons to every single issue and then formulate the correct solution that is fair to everyone. If you want my opinion on a simple fix it would be to make lobbying illegal. Get the money out of politics so the decision makers make decisions on what's best for the people and not a select few. Is that the final solution? No, but it gets the ball rolling in the right direction. Now if you have a reason why you think that's a stupid idea, I'd love to hear it.

 

[50PoundHead]

I don't really know how to answer the 'How does it feel to be skull-****ed by big business?' type questions, because I'm not particularly interested in subjective discussion. I'll save that for AA.

You've labeled yourself with comments and derisions in this thread, and that's cool -- I just provided a definition of your beliefs based upon the views/opinions espoused so far; you don't believe in our system of government (well, you do, but technically only the way things used to be ... before what happened, who knows) or economy, you consider yourself a better option at President than any of the candidates, you believe that you will retain your personal morality no matter the circumstance. It's a pretty simple formula.

Of course, no meaningful solutions have been proffered on your part, yet you have mocked people who have at least submitted ideas germane to realistic progress. Instead, they're 'brainwashed' or 'delusional' or 'stupid' or whatever. Right.

I respect your passion for a better society/world, it's certainly admirable and from the heart, but you are have a difficult time delivering your vision in a meaningful way.

That's why we need to pass this bill NOW!!!!

[video=youtube;Btw1eh4mitQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Btw1eh4mitQ[/video]

 

[sturg33]

You do realize that the annoying qualities you're calling me out for are the exact same ones you're using against me, right?

I know, I know Hawk. I'm a (scary propaganda label) because one of my beliefs doesn't coincide with the right wingers handbook. I also know that once someone is labeled a (scary propaganda label), it makes it real easy to discredit everything they say thereafter regardless of how much it may make sense. The whole labeling thing is so ridiculous. I have many, many beliefs and they aren't all covered under one label. Take that amateur hour labeling garbage elsewhere.

I gave my thoughts on the subjects and I expressed my disagreements on some others. I answered as many questions as I could from you guys and when I asked questions you guys ignored them or regurgitated them in the form of "What does it feel like to be skull ****ed by big business?"...which was obviously never asked. I asked you a serious question about why you think the government are assholes because I actually wanted to know why you think that way. I asked sturg why he thought small business was over regulated and he never answered either. I thought both questions could have led to solid discussions but both were skirted.

We elect these people into office to discuss these issues and figure them out for us. It's their full time job to figure this **** out. It's what they get paid for. None of us are qualified to really figure any of this out. We don't have the time to figure out the pros and cons to every single issue and then formulate the correct solution that is fair to everyone. If you want my opinion on a simple fix it would be to make lobbying illegal. Get the money out of politics so the decision makers make decisions on what's best for the people and not a select few. Is that the final solution? No, but it gets the ball rolling in the right direction. Now if you have a reason why you think that's a stupid idea, I'd love to hear it.

Why are small businesses so over regulated? There's probably a million different reasons. The over-arching theme would be the government has to get its hands into everything - and it ultimately slows everything down and often makes things far less productive.

Meanwhile - you're upset about the minimum wage thing. let's look at it from a basic liberty perspective. If a person (let's say me)... If I want to work for $6 and hour to get some extra cash, and a business is willing to pay me that, you're suggestion is that that should be illegal. Think about how ridiculous that is

 

[AerchAngel]

I've lived off minimum wage and did so while attending school full-time. I know what its like to "live uncomfortably." I worked 40 hours per week making $6/hour; cleaned an office building at night for $50/week and took a part time job working 8 hours either Saturday or Sunday for another $6/hour. My wife did the same thing as I. That comes out to $2,312/month between 2 people. Of that we paid $700/month for a tiny apartment, paid for vehicles, and ate the hell out of oodles and noodles and PBJ sandwiches. This was without government assistance, which Im sure could have been done (low income housing deal) if I would have know to apply for it and without Obamacare. It certainly can be done, but it takes some hustle from people. Some people aren't willing to work hard.

Darn, I wish I can give you 20 thanks for that. Dude you did what every American should if they don't have a job, but Americans are too lazy, they want it all right here right now, just like our fans, want it all. We are born that way, but wait for it, some of us knows how to step back and say okay, this is my goal, this is what I am going to do to obtain my goal, it will be tough, but I will be rewarded in the end. I won't lie, I had it easy with everything, only was out of work like six months to finish my higher education, but was worth it to live within my means since I saved up for it.

Yes because I ate so many Ramen Noodles, it is my favorite go to food after Udon noodles even today, I swear I got fat off those things and washing it down with 40/40 was cherry on the top, no just kidding, I won't drink monkey piss, but Keystone was my friend.

Yeah, go ahead and laugh. Cheap, not bad, but makes you go to the bathroom a lot.

 

[57Brave]

get offa my lawn

 

[AerchAngel]

Dude, that's not just your boogeyman 'big business' -- that's greed. And that's capitalism. GG. Greed is go(o)d. Gordon Gekko.

So now we've managed to transition from anarcho-communist worldviews to moral absolutes.

Also, what does privacy and unreasonable searches and seizures have to do with your corporatist excess spiel? Are we also expected to blame business for that?

It's really easy to cherry-pick the things you dislike about organized government and shake your finger at the system from a safe distance, but it's also pretty rottenly hypocritical.

Lighten up Hawk, I get the gist of what he saying and he is mostly right, what is much, too much? Why a multi-billion company axe 460 IT a nd computer programmers to have their shareholders receive an extra 28 dollars a month. Those individuals are saddle with 60 to 100k debt for schools, house and car and now some working at Best Buy and then another job, just for a lousy 28 dollars, which the Costa Ricans and Indians and Pakistanis and the Indonesians are making in a week.

Big business is tearing the fabric of what our nation was built upon and now we are exploiting those to make even more money than they can spend in a 1000 lifetimes. Maybe they are into Selfless the movie, hoping a serum for immortality or clones because Hell is surely awaiting them unless they give massive amounts to charity. We only know/knew a few has done it. But the middle men took a chunk out of that.

When I have friends I worked with asking for money because they went from 50k a year to 18k a year is disheartening because it is really hard to get into IT nowadays. You go against cheaper offshore or Indians with their Visa's and they will undercut you in salary.

You see, some people gets defeated and they don't want to try anymore and I understand because when I moved up here, there were no jobs for me, struck out on 12 of them until I finally got one. I never gave up. I had a goal and stuck to it. Businesses are making those obstacles tougher to overcome though and that is what scares me.