We're winning at minimum the second wild card next year. Could win the division. Just wish Fredi were here to reap the benefits of his hard work to help rebuild the farm.
John Schuerholz on Braves Banter Podcast
- Thread starter dak
- Start date
dak
Well-known member
Don't lose all hope. I wouldn't be surprised to see Fredi back with the Braves in some advisory / scouting capacity. I mean, he's not the prettiest girl at the dance, but . . .
Ultimately, it doesn't matter how many games the Braves win in 2017 since the playoffs are not a realistic option. All that maters is that it appears like they are trying to build a winner. Moves like Kemp and Mac are precisely those types of moves, and the only reason they are decent moves is because they can be made without sacrificing much of the future.
I suggested they make trades for guys that require very little prospect value to acquire. Guys like Kemp and Mac.
To get an impact player like McCutchen or Longoria (examples for the sake of the discussion), the Braves would have to include prospects with significant value. How is that any better than signing a quality FA that costs them a draft pick? Why give up a top 100 prospect in a trade just to avoid losing a 2nd round draft pick? Or are you one of those guys who thinks the Braves are going to trade for Arenado by packaging Jenkins and 5-6 other spare parts?
The only asset of real value the Braves should be willing to trade is one of Mallex or Inciarte since they are redundant. So if Inciarte can get a guy like Beretto from the A's or Baez from the Cubs, or Mallex can be the main piece of a trade with the Rays for Longoria, there is a small chance the Braves could acquire a player that actually has impact potential.
Outside of Mallex or Inciarte, I don't think the Braves should be willing to trade any player with any real value this offseason.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Everyone knows where I stand on this but since the Braves are going a different way, I tend to agree with the thoughts of Enscheff. The Braves will trade for guys who are over paid (McCann is almost a certainty IMO due to the Georgia boy history and past ties to the franchise) and sign guys who don't come with a QO.
However, I don't see the QO thing as being avoided necessarily by the Braves because of the loss of the pick but more so in the fact that the few who might get QO AND be of use to the Braves aren't likely to end up in Atlanta. Guys like Ramos, Cespedes, Desmond, Trumbo, etc. are all unlikely fits for Atlanta. I don't see a lot of SP who will get QO and the Braves have no real need for a closer.
The one area where the Braves MAY try to go for a quality upgrade would be 3B where you have Prado, Turner and Valbuena and I don't think any would get a QO tag with the exception of possibly Turner (depending on health) because the Dodgers can afford to chance that he accepts.
However, I don't see the QO thing as being avoided necessarily by the Braves because of the loss of the pick but more so in the fact that the few who might get QO AND be of use to the Braves aren't likely to end up in Atlanta. Guys like Ramos, Cespedes, Desmond, Trumbo, etc. are all unlikely fits for Atlanta. I don't see a lot of SP who will get QO and the Braves have no real need for a closer.
The one area where the Braves MAY try to go for a quality upgrade would be 3B where you have Prado, Turner and Valbuena and I don't think any would get a QO tag with the exception of possibly Turner (depending on health) because the Dodgers can afford to chance that he accepts.
I don't know why you think I said anything close to any of that. I didn't say we could make a trade for a McCutchen, Longoria, or Arenado, and I didn't say we could or should give up top 100 prospects. In fact, I explicitly said we could give up guys outside our top prospects and potentially get some 'decent' return. I'm talking about packaging guys like Povse, Gant, and Ruiz (I know we're unlikely to trade Ruiz) for something of some value, like a 3B option or SP. Nothing great or shocking, but something that could improve the team.
In fact, trading a little for an overpaid guy that can still play some is absolutely included in the kind of deals I was talking about. I was just saying that when he says we have 'assets' to build more of a winner, that doesn't just mean hitting the FA market.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
True, IF they are sold on the necessity of the dog and pony show.
If they are willing to continue the natural course of the rebuild, I could still see a Teheran trade along with Mallex and/or Inciarte, Viz, Kemp, Markakis, Peterson, Garcia, Withrow, Krol, maybe Folty as well given the right return.
I've been on the record as opposing an Inciarte deal, even though I think that actually has a decent chance of happening.
And I'm ok with trading Teheran for the right package but would be more hesitant to trade Folty just because I don't think he will fetch in return what he could be to us next year. He's really starting to turn the corner.
And I'm ok with trading Teheran for the right package but would be more hesitant to trade Folty just because I don't think he will fetch in return what he could be to us next year. He's really starting to turn the corner.
I didn't accuse you of saying anything. I posed a question, that questions being, "why are teams more reluctant to give up a draft pick than they are to trade away prospects?".
If the Braves absolutely will not give up a draft pick to sign a FA, then it stands to reason they absolutely will not give up a prospect with any real value in a trade. Therefore, the only possibilities are guys like Kemp and Mac. The only exception being a trade centered around Mallex or Inciarte (who is at absolute peak value now).
You clearly seemed to believe I had said we should go after big names in trades and possibly give up top prospects. I definitely didn't say anything close to that.
You are impossible to have a discussion with.
ramadon101
Danville Rookie
There is one way to acquire MLB ready (or near ready in some instances) premium talent without having to give up draft picks or trade prospects and that is via the posting system with NPB or KBO. For example, I suspect every single scout is salivating over the prospect of Shohei Otani coming stateside and there are rumors he could do so as early as 2017 (he's a FA after 2021, I believe). Otani's FB runs 100 mph routinely and his slider is on Corey Kluber's level. He'd be an instant ace and would only cost a team money. Similarly, Shintaro Fujinami and Tomohiro Anraku are premium talents (albeit a notch or two below Otani, who is widely considered better than Darvish was at the same age). Position players include Yuki Yanagita (OF - more of a potential 20/20 OF with plus-plus defense - certainly has value here) and Tetsuto Yamada (currently projected as a 2B, but I could see him slide over to 3B for the Braves and be a 20/20 or better guy at the corner as he also has plus speed).
Kawakami seemingly soured the organization to the prospect of Asian players coming stateside but if you have the opportunity to acquire an Otani level talent, you don't pass it up. That's the kind of player that you could change the trajectory of a middle market club quickly with... even if they don't hit their ceilings in MLB, they're still likely worth more than they get on a per/WAR basis vis a vis the price stateside (even factoring in the posting fee, which will undoubtedly be high for Otani, Fujinami or Anraku).
Kawakami seemingly soured the organization to the prospect of Asian players coming stateside but if you have the opportunity to acquire an Otani level talent, you don't pass it up. That's the kind of player that you could change the trajectory of a middle market club quickly with... even if they don't hit their ceilings in MLB, they're still likely worth more than they get on a per/WAR basis vis a vis the price stateside (even factoring in the posting fee, which will undoubtedly be high for Otani, Fujinami or Anraku).
Hmm, here is my exact quote:
"OK, but why would a team prefer to trade away prospects rather than sign FAs that require the loss of a draft pick....that will become a prospect? If they value draft picks so highly, then it would be illogical to hoard draft picks and instead trade away talented prospects who already have had their signing bonuses paid."
Please highlight the text where I said anything to the effect of, "you think they should trade away valuable prospects".
I asked why a team would prefer to trade away prospects than draft picks, and then made a statement about how I feel teams should act.
I am literally asking...why would the Braves consider trading valuable prospects if losing a draft pick is completely off the table? If that's the case, then can we eliminate all possiblities of them acquiring an impact player on the level of McCutchen or Longoria? Might one of Inciarte or Mallex be the lone exception to that general rule for this offseason, seeing as they are the only redundant assets of value the Braves possess?
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
It could also be that the way the Braves treated Kawakami might give pause to Japanese players considering coming over.
But I like your idea of looking at players from Korea and Japan. And I would not allow our experience with Oliveira make us gun shy with respect to Cuban players.
ramadon101
Danville Rookie
More than likely a non-issue, even accounting for cultural sensitivities. If a team wins the post, the player will likely sign assuming the dollars are in the vicinity of fair. The bigger issue with Otani is that he's a two-way star; he's definitely an ace, but he's also an above-average hitter/OF and likes hitting. He's on record saying he wants to continue both, but no one expects a MLB team to allow him to play OF and also pitch regularly (he's allowed to come in relief on days he's an OF currently, and start on other days). At least we (as an NL team) have the benefit of allowing him to hit occasionally.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
I don't deal any of those guys. I build with them.
I build with them, too. If I think a deal involving them helps us build even better, though, I'm all for it.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
Yeah, but I have to be blown away to pull the trigger.
On Inciarte: He has everything but power. And that's the one thing teams have consistently paid - or overpaid - for, probably since the Babe's time. Every team needs some guys with Inciarte's skill set, but they're hard to find - at least to the degree Inciarte has them.
Point is, I think he's one guy whom we could afford to extent. Right now, even. Maybe 6/$60m with a team option, something like that.
If you decide Ender's your guy in CF (I have), you might play Mallex there until you deal him, because there's no way you maximize Mallex unless he plays CF. Let Mallex build value then trade for a power hitting corner or 3B.
Russ2dollas
10 yr, $185 million Extension
What power bat is available? Why would you take mallex for a power bat?