Kimbrel As A Trade Candidate

sturg33 said:
Clearing $30 million in salary makes sense to me bc:

1. BJ sucks
2. Kimbrel won't be able to help us anytime soon

We can use that money for someone like Cueto or Price next offseason... Or a big trade. Point is, losing Kimbrel doesn't really hurt us right now. Losing BJ clearly helps
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I'd rather not throw big money at pitching. I like the idea of continuing to develop pitching and let Roger work with them at the major league level. Its just too big of a risk to pay someone 15-20 a year and have them blow out their arm. Spend the money on positional players.
 
sturg33 said:
Clearing $30 million in salary makes sense to me bc:

1. BJ sucks
2. Kimbrel won't be able to help us anytime soon

We can use that money for someone like Cueto or Price next offseason... Or a big trade. Point is, losing Kimbrel doesn't really hurt us right now. Losing BJ clearly helps
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Uggla is off the books next offseason and they can use that money on a high impact SP if thats what they choose to do. I'd prefer to sign a big-name bat, we have lots of pitching as it is.

You dont give them away, its not like we're scrapping for dollars here.
 
thethe said:
I'd rather not throw big money at pitching. I like the idea of continuing to develop pitching and let Roger work with them at the major league level. Its just too big of a risk to pay someone 15-20 a year and have them blow out their arm. Spend the money on positional players.
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That wasn't my point. Point is, use that money to go sign studs like Heyward or Justin Upton.
 
Heyward said:
Uggla is off the books next offseason and they can use that money on a high impact SP if thats what they choose to do. I'd prefer to sign a big-name bat, we have lots of pitching as it is.

You dont give them away, its not like we're scrapping for dollars here.
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Uggla's money doesn't even cover the raises of our core that we recently locked up
 
sturg33 said:
That wasn't my point. Point is, use that money to go sign studs like Heyward or Justin Upton.
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If that player is available this offseason then you go do it but they aren't. So to me it doesn't make sense to dump the money for nothing until that happens. One more year of BJ's contract off the books and its easier to trade him. I don't think he is going to be good this year but I do believe he is going to improve with better instruction. With 2 years left on his deal he becomes much easier to trade. Kimbrel will not be an issue to trade at all assuming health.
 
thethe said:
The impending doom was clear to the Braves in that 2017 that new ball park would be open and the team would be barely a 500 team after Jason/Justin walked out the door coupled with an awful farm system. The Braves used to churn out young player after young player for 15 years. Now, that organization is getting back together after Wren alienated everyone to the point where we saw mass exodus from the organization. Even guys like Keith Law who are ALWAYS hard on the Braves have praised what the Braves have done in the recent months with how they brought back so many talented scouts. Its time to go back to the way things were done when we would automatically win division after division.

Wren was given a plethora of talent to work with and he couldn't get the job done. Glad we are turning the page.
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Couldn't get the job done? That's inane. The Braves were pretty damn good from 2009-2013 ... and given the success the team enjoyed in the standings the first-half of 2014 it's not outside of the realm of possibility to drop the word 'aberration' in here.

The Braves rarely trade legitimate talent for prospects. Schuerholz literally never did it, Frank Wren did it approximately two times. Make no mistake: this is not 'going back to the way things were done' -- this is new, uncharted territory. This is John Hart's way of building a ball-club. Let's not get the two confused. Schuerholz built a farm system that was used to compliment his Major League teams (primarily via trade), not supply them.
 
sturg33 said:
Uggla's money doesn't even cover the raises of our core that we recently locked up
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I'm not worried about their raises. The revenues are escalating in baseball and with the new stadium the Braves can cover that just fine. I would expect an annual payroll of anywher efrom 120-135 in the future.
 
Hawk said:
Couldn't get the job done? That's inane. The Braves were pretty damn good from 2009-2013 ... and given the success the team enjoyed in the standings the first-half of 2014 it's not outside of the realm of possibility to drop the word 'aberration' in here.

The Braves rarely trade legitimate talent for prospects. Schuerholz literally never did it, Frank Wren did it approximately two times. Make no mistake: this is not 'going back to the way things were done' -- this is new, uncharted territory. This is John Hart's way of building a ball-club. Let's not get the two confused. Schuerholz built a farm system that was used to compliment his Major League teams (primarily via trade), not supply them.
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We won two playoff games in that timespan, the team was flawed and it needed a new direction.

You and others overrate JUp and Heyward like we just dealt away Mike Trout and STanton.
 
Hawk said:
Couldn't get the job done? That's inane. The Braves were pretty damn good from 2009-2013 ... and given the success the team enjoyed in the standings the first-half of 2014 it's not outside of the realm of possibility to drop the word 'aberration' in here.

The Braves rarely trade legitimate talent for prospects. Schuerholz literally never did it, Frank Wren did it approximately two times. Make no mistake: this is not 'going back to the way things were done' -- this is new, uncharted territory. This is John Hart's way of building a ball-club. Let's not get the two confused. Schuerholz built a farm system that was used to compliment his Major League teams (primarily via trade), not supply them.
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The Braves run in the 90's and early 200's was littered with prospects that came up and contributed to the team. The idea is that you have enough to trade and get them helping the team. That completely evaporated recently. The farm system is in shambles. That has to be changed.
 
thethe said:
The Braves run in the 90's and early 200's was littered with prospects that came up and contributed to the team. The idea is that you have enough to trade and get them helping the team. That completely evaporated recently. The farm system is in shambles. That has to be changed.
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You can fix farm systems with one or two good drafts and savvy indy league and international signings. You simply don't gut a Major League roster to rebuild your Minor League system.
 
Hawk said:
You can fix farm systems with one or two good drafts and savvy indy league and international signings. You simply don't gut a Major League roster to rebuild your Minor League system.
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They traded two players who were FA's to be?

How is that gutting your ML roster, breaking news it isnt.
 
Hawk said:
You can fix farm systems with one or two good drafts and savvy indy league and international signings. You simply don't gut a Major League roster to rebuild your Minor League system.
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You can, but to rebuild a whole system through the draft takes 3-5 years at least and the Braves just could not accept that timeframe.

Something drastic needed to be done. You just could not let talents like Heyward/Upton walk for a comp pick. If the right deal is out there for Kimbrel they will do the same but its different iwth him because he has already showed a willingness to stay on board at less than market. If the others did the same we would still have them around.
 
thethe said:
You can, but to rebuild a whole system through the draft takes 3-5 years at least and the Braves just could not accept that timeframe.

Something drastic needed to be done. You just could not let talents like Heyward/Upton walk for a comp pick. If the right deal is out there for Kimbrel they will do the same but its different iwth him because he has already showed a willingness to stay on board at less than market. If the others did the same we would still have them around.
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I disagree that drastic measures needed to be taken. I could accept an argument centered around the notion that Wren needed to go, but entirely imploding the team in 3 months still doesn't really add up. Especially when the idea is contention in 2017.

Also, when I say imploding, I'm not talking about Heyward and Upton. I'm talking about potentially trading Gattis and the supposition that Kimbrel is available ... the trades of Varvaro, Wren, etc. The Markakis and Grilli signings. It's just weird.
 
thethe said:
You can, but to rebuild a whole system through the draft takes 3-5 years at least and the Braves just could not accept that timeframe.

Something drastic needed to be done. You just could not let talents like Heyward/Upton walk for a comp pick. If the right deal is out there for Kimbrel they will do the same but its different iwth him because he has already showed a willingness to stay on board at less than market. If the others did the same we would still have them around.
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If you could sign either J Up or Heyward, that's the optimal solution. I wouldn't sacrafice that for prospects. That's not close to worth it.

But I think it's reasonable to take the FO's word for it that we weren't going to be able to resign them. Before anyone disputes that, just think of all the players that have left even when we were good and had reason to keep them. It's the worst part of baseball. In other sports every team keeps their best players if they want to. In baseball it's a rarity.
 
Hawk said:
I disagree that drastic measures needed to be taken. I could accept an argument centered around the notion that Wren needed to go, but entirely imploding the team in 3 months still doesn't really add up. Especially when the idea is contention in 2017.

Also, when I say imploding, I'm not talking about Heyward and Upton. I'm talking about potentially trading Gattis and the supposition that Kimbrel is available ... the trades of Varvaro, Wren, etc. The Markakis and Grilli signings. It's just weird.
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I get what you are saying about Gattis and Kimbrel. But with Gattis is just makes sense. His value to an AL team is just too great to pass up. Teams are going to pony up top 100 prospects for him. You just have to hope that your scouting system targets the right ones. I have faith in the old guard especially since Roy Clark is back. Gattis is just going to continue to get hurt in the NL which will nerf his value. TO me is just makes sense to trade Gattis and we all know that I'm one of his biggest fans.

I honestly don't even want to trade Kimbrel. I'd be happy to pay him 12-15M per year for the next 10 years.
 
chop2chip said:
If you could sign either J Up or Heyward, that's the optimal solution. I wouldn't sacrafice that for prospects. That's not close to worth it.

But I think it's reasonable to take the FO's word for it that we weren't going to be able to resign them. Before anyone disputes that, just think of all the players that have left even when we were good and had reason to keep them. It's the worst part of baseball. In other sports every team keeps their best players if they want to. In baseball it's a rarity.
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I'm not sure I would have committed big time dollars to Heyward. I really want Upton here honestly. Guy has proven he can be a dynamic hitter and that is what we need. But, when it became clear those guys weren't going to extend at less than market it was time to make the smart move and trade them.
 
thethe said:
I'm not sure I would have committed big time dollars to Heyward. I really want Upton here honestly. Guy has proven he can be a dynamic hitter and that is what we need. But, when it became clear those guys weren't going to extend at less than market it was time to make the smart move and trade them.
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You finally have a legit top 10 player to overrate and now you underrate him.

Steven Adams is trolling us all rn
 
chop2chip said:
You finally have a legit top 10 player to overrate and now you underrate him.

Steven Adams is trolling us all rn
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Whose a top 10 player in baseball? Heyward? Seriously?

FYI - Adams has been solid since he got healthy.
 
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