Kimbrel As A Trade Candidate

MLBTR: "Baseball executives tell Cafardo the Braves may be willing to deal closer Craig Kimbrel at the trade deadline, if the club is struggling."
 
why would anyone be off limits if we are looking to 2017 and our division is loading up?

No reason behind it, but I think a closer with multiple years of control would get a better price at the deadline...
 
First off no one is paying 30 million a year for Kimbrel and BJ. If they would John Hart would have driven Kimbrel to the airport personally.

Trading closers is about leverage. We have to wait to see who gets desperate. Atleast 1 team is going to need a closer that is in win now at all costs mode. We don't even need 2 bidders because keeping him is a viable option.
 
I am strongly against using one of our most valueable assets to shed bjs contract. Best thing for the franchise is yo get as many talented players as possible. Being in rebuilding years allows the sting of bjs contract to hurt less. Just play him and pay him. If he's bad it's actually helping the long term of the franchise by getting slightly higher picks.
 
Personally, I'd take what Hart says about not looking to trade Kimbrel with a grain of salt. He has said a number of things in the past before doing quite the opposite. Further, I don't think he'll move Kimbrel anytime soon but if someone gets desperate at the trade deadline this season or next and offers a lot. Well, I could certainly see a trade involving Kimbrel going down in that case.

That said, I am not looking forward to it as Kimbrel is a favorite of mine. I am just trying to be realistic after seeing a number of my favorite players traded off this off-season.

PS: If Hart ever trades Kimbrel to the Yankees I'll be coming for his head. I don't care what we get back, I'll have his head on a stick! :)
 
Look at it this way. We aren't going to have many leads so his value probably won't drop any. July 30 he will be gone for two injured minor leaguers and a utility man with leadership.
 
"May trade him at the deadline if the team is still struggling" is defined in the GM-Speak Dictionary as - start working on your best offers now boys...I've now officially notified the fanbase that he "may" be gone.

Hart learned his lesson with the Upton deal vs. the Heyward deal and put that experience to use in the Gattis deal - if someone knocks his socks off with an offer that fits what he's looking for he's going to pounce. He won't hold out looking for someone to marginally top that offer. While it will have to be slightly better than the Gattis deal and include 3 Top 15 prospects, I think that John, John, and Bobby will defer to Coppy when he stands strong and points out that we'll be getting that kind of return for 70 innings on a losing team.

Sure would clear a lot of salary to help reshape this team. The money owed Kimbrel right now more or less covers the other half of what would be needed to sign Moncada WITHOUT any payroll increases. If they move Minor before the deadline, you'd then be able to make offers to Upton (or Heyward) and Fowler next winter. Kimbrel to Detroit for Buck Farmer, Jose Valdez, and Tyler Collins would all but complete the farm system makeover by giving you a starter ready to replace Minor (with similar upside) in Farmer, a potential eventual Kimbrel replacement that could learn under Grilli and Johnson in Valdez, and a very good OF prospect in Collins, and the team could be ready to compete as early as next season. The Tigers now won't be investing money in Scherzer and have both Nathan and Soria coming off the books following this season.

CF- Fowler, 2B- Peraza, 1B- Freeman, LF- Upton, RF- Markakis, 3B- Johnson/Peterson, SS- Simmons, C- Bethancourt

Teheran, Wood, Miller, Banuelos, Foltyniewicz, Farmer, Jenkins, Hale, Hursh (with Fried, Sims, and Sanchez as the pretty amazing depth)

Grilli, Simmons, Vizcaino, Johnson, Russell, Kohn, Jaime, Hale, Avilan, Valdez

And you'd have Moncada spend 2016 in the minors getting ready to step into Johnson's spot at 3B going into the new park in 2017.
 
rico43 said:
Shopping him is not the same as trading him. A little knowledge now will help pinpoint the return he'd bring at the trade deadline.
Click to expand...

Or run this risk of injury during the first half of a lost season. We should trade him now.
 
The Braves have a lot of BP parts that teams might want at the deadline. They will probably be a one stop shop for the rest of the league's BP needs, from setup guy to elite closer.

If Kimbrel is traded I think it is important that Hart gets a clear overpay. He is under control through 2018, so he could be part of the fun in 2017 and beyond. This isn't like the other trades where guys only had 1 year left or no position to play.

If is killer deal isn't available now, don't trade him now. If a great return isn't available at the deadline, don't trade him then either.
 
I understand the logic of trading Kimbrel if we are blown away by a proposal that brings a TON of good young controllable talent back with high upside, you'd have to consider it...but I will say this

after watching Wohlers give up our back to back World Series
after watching Rocker give up the lead in a pivotal game 1 World Series 1999
after watching Kolb, Reitsma, & Wickman try to attempt to save games

all the while watching

Smoltz be automatic in a time when we no longer had the horses to carry us farther in the playoffs
the Yankees dynasty essentially being built on the reliability of closing games starting with Rivera/Wetteland and then Rivera
and now Kimbrel essentially being one of the best closers potentially of all time and one of the nastiest guys in the game

I just WOULDN'T do it. We are indeed building for the future, acquire the necessary talent to do so, and mesh it and built around one of the few givens in the organization right now...and that is GAME OVER night after night. It's easy to build a pen around guys like Smoltz, Wagner, & Kimbrel...and has a physiological effect on the entire team and pen when you know you have that guy and has an increase in returns.

Look at it this way...if the Braves had a more reliable option as closer (say Smoltz) in the 90's, we have 1996 WS in the bag. We probably have another one in addition to that. Without that slider hung to Leyritz, the history book would be considerably different today...I'm confident the Braves go on and continue to march towards more WS, all the while I doubt the Yanks dynasty happens. George was already putting pressure on Torre after going down 2 games in the 96 WS, and I think the organization instead of hanging on to their young core (Williams, Posada, Rivera, Jeter, etc) would have started trading some of those assets for more desirable known but past their prime guys. JS probably doesn't go into reinvent wheel the next spring training.

And Hart should understand all of this. The guy had the World Series trophy taken out of his hands in 1997...by you got it, Jose Mesa.

If he (or we) are confident that we can build a team that can get to that point (lead late in games in the World Series) then we need to keep the guy.

Ask the Tigers about having a viable closer. They've arguably built the one of the best well rounded teams in the game with offensive firepower and a phenominal starting rotation, but neglected the bullpen. If they had Joe Nathan (in his prime) a few years earlier they probably got a WS ring to show for it. Instead they tried to patch it with past their prime Joe Nathan, and look at how that worked out.
 
Millwood1Hitter said:
I understand the logic of trading Kimbrel if we are blown away by a proposal that brings a TON of good young controllable talent back with high upside, you'd have to consider it...but I will say this

after watching Wohlers give up our back to back World Series
after watching Rocker give up the lead in a pivotal game 1 World Series 1999
after watching Kolb, Reitsma, & Wickman try to attempt to save games

all the while watching

Smoltz be automatic in a time when we no longer had the horses to carry us farther in the playoffs
the Yankees dynasty essentially being built on the reliability of closing games starting with Rivera/Wetteland and then Rivera
and now Kimbrel essentially being one of the best closers potentially of all time and one of the nastiest guys in the game

I just WOULDN'T do it. We are indeed building for the future, acquire the necessary talent to do so, and mesh it and built around one of the few givens in the organization right now...and that is GAME OVER night after night. It's easy to build a pen around guys like Smoltz, Wagner, & Kimbrel...and has a physiological effect on the entire team and pen when you know you have that guy and has an increase in returns.

Look at it this way...if the Braves had a more reliable option as closer (say Smoltz) in the 90's, we have 1996 WS in the bag. We probably have another one in addition to that. Without that slider hung to Leyritz, the history book would be considerably different today...I'm confident the Braves go on and continue to march towards more WS, all the while I doubt the Yanks dynasty happens. George was already putting pressure on Torre after going down 2 games in the 96 WS, and I think the organization instead of hanging on to their young core (Williams, Posada, Rivera, Jeter, etc) would have started trading some of those assets for more desirable known but past their prime guys. JS probably doesn't go into reinvent wheel the next spring training.

And Hart should understand all of this. The guy had the World Series trophy taken out of his hands in 1997...by you got it, Jose Mesa.

If he (or we) are confident that we can build a team that can get to that point (lead late in games in the World Series) then we need to keep the guy.

Ask the Tigers about having a viable closer. They've arguably built the one of the best well rounded teams in the game with offensive firepower and a phenominal starting rotation, but neglected the bullpen. If they had Joe Nathan (in his prime) a few years earlier they probably got a WS ring to show for it. Instead they tried to patch it with past their prime Joe Nathan, and look at how that worked out.
Click to expand...

Paying Kimbrel is an absolute waste of money when you're as far away from actually winning games as this club is. He's an absolute luxury. Once you've built the team into a contender, you spend money for that "lockdown guy" if you haven't developed him. Papelbon's coming off another solid season and the Phillies can't give him away even if they'll eat half his salary. There are always PLENTY of available options - they may not be as sexy as Kimbrel, but there are plenty of people who can close games.

Keep him with a decent offer on the table and he blows his elbow out in June, and you're left holding another Uggla contract.
 
Millwood1Hitter said:
I understand the logic of trading Kimbrel if we are blown away by a proposal that brings a TON of good young controllable talent back with high upside, you'd have to consider it...but I will say this

after watching Wohlers give up our back to back World Series
after watching Rocker give up the lead in a pivotal game 1 World Series 1999
after watching Kolb, Reitsma, & Wickman try to attempt to save games

all the while watching

Smoltz be automatic in a time when we no longer had the horses to carry us farther in the playoffs
the Yankees dynasty essentially being built on the reliability of closing games starting with Rivera/Wetteland and then Rivera
and now Kimbrel essentially being one of the best closers potentially of all time and one of the nastiest guys in the game

I just WOULDN'T do it. We are indeed building for the future, acquire the necessary talent to do so, and mesh it and built around one of the few givens in the organization right now...and that is GAME OVER night after night. It's easy to build a pen around guys like Smoltz, Wagner, & Kimbrel...and has a physiological effect on the entire team and pen when you know you have that guy and has an increase in returns.

Look at it this way...if the Braves had a more reliable option as closer (say Smoltz) in the 90's, we have 1996 WS in the bag. We probably have another one in addition to that. Without that slider hung to Leyritz, the history book would be considerably different today...I'm confident the Braves go on and continue to march towards more WS, all the while I doubt the Yanks dynasty happens. George was already putting pressure on Torre after going down 2 games in the 96 WS, and I think the organization instead of hanging on to their young core (Williams, Posada, Rivera, Jeter, etc) would have started trading some of those assets for more desirable known but past their prime guys. JS probably doesn't go into reinvent wheel the next spring training.

And Hart should understand all of this. The guy had the World Series trophy taken out of his hands in 1997...by you got it, Jose Mesa.

If he (or we) are confident that we can build a team that can get to that point (lead late in games in the World Series) then we need to keep the guy.

Ask the Tigers about having a viable closer. They've arguably built the one of the best well rounded teams in the game with offensive firepower and a phenominal starting rotation, but neglected the bullpen. If they had Joe Nathan (in his prime) a few years earlier they probably got a WS ring to show for it. Instead they tried to patch it with past their prime Joe Nathan, and look at how that worked out.
Click to expand...

The difference between run of the mill closers and elite ones don't justify the cost. It's why almost every team spends so many resources to develop a hard throwing closer they can abuse for the first 6 years of their career. These closers have leads ranging from 1-4 runs and even the worst ones convert close to 90%.
 
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