Kimbrel traded to Red Sox

San Diego got a great return for Kimbrel.

The Braves got a great return for Kimbrel.

Both are true. I'm just happy Kimbrel is a part of a great baseball town. That's going to be awesome for him.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Lol I usually love your posts, but you're the king of recommending these minor league trades that are completely unrealistic. As someone who follows prospects and minor leaguers and their value very closely, there is no way we're getting close to that type of value for what you have us giving up. Plus players like Meadows, Frazier, McMahon and even Judge are potentially untouchable in those organizations.

Frazier is blocked by Zimmer and at least a year, if not more away. They have the pitching to compete this year but it will begin to get very expensive next year. They are a bat or two (ML ready now) away so sending them Freeman and Maybin makes sense.

McMahon is a 3B but even if he could be converted to OF the Rocks need pitching much more than they need a 3B converted to OF so Miller for McMahon makes sense.

I think you looked at those trades and immediately discounted them because you didn't want to trade the Braves players that I was trading in the mocks. That was before the Braves started to trade THOSE players. I certainly think the trades (or at least some like them) would have maximized the value which is what you said you wanted.

I might be reading it wrong and if so, mea culpa.
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I'm actually on board with trading everyone, as long as it's the right deal. I'm actually a fan of all baseball and the minor leagues so I follow prospects very closely, which is why I felt knowledgeable enough to counter you on your points. It's all good, we can agree to disagree. I'm going to keep enjoying reading your posts though, you have a very informed take on things which seems rarer these days.
 
The Kimbrell trade was still a good trade, imo, but one I wouldn't have made because Kimbrel was my favorite player. But if we don't use the money saved to improve the team then this BoSox trade makes our trade look pretty bad. Considering the money we have saved with the Simba trade and likely future trades of Maybin, Swisher, or Bourn then we had better not run out a sub 100 million $ payroll again. And that doesn't mean signing 5 or 6 scrub veterans at 6 million a piece to fill out the roster.
 
NYCBrave said:
But now that the rebuild isn't rolling out as quickly as planned, hindsight seems to be we should have just held onto him and paid off the salary, don't you think?
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Not held on to him. Kimbrel was a trade as far as I am concerned in any case. However, I think the return for Kimbrel alone plus ultimate release and eating salary of Upton might of outweighed what the Braves got by trading them together.
 
NYCBrave said:
I'm actually on board with trading everyone, as long as it's the right deal. I'm actually a fan of all baseball and the minor leagues so I follow prospects very closely, which is why I felt knowledgeable enough to counter you on your points. It's all good, we can agree to disagree. I'm going to keep enjoying reading your posts though, you have a very informed take on things which seems rarer these days.
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It's all good. It's nice to have some sanity and I admit I'm not right ALL the time:winking0016:
 
Kimbrel garners a huge return, again. Nice trade for SD. I wonder where they'll go from here. Nothing would surprise me.
 
In terms of overall value, our return was similar. We got Wisler, a pick that became Riley, and got rid of BJ. However, in hindsight, if we're not planning on competing in 2017, why the heck did it matter that we got rid of BJ? That savings is going to end up not being used for anything. In fact, some of the defense of the Simmons trade has been salary relief. The heck do we need all this money for?

People are overlooking Guerra in this deal. He's not far behind Albies as a SS prospect.
 
smootness said:
In terms of overall value, our return was similar. We got Wisler, a pick that became Riley, and got rid of BJ. However, in hindsight, if we're not planning on competing in 2017, why the heck did it matter that we got rid of BJ? That savings is going to end up not being used for anything. In fact, some of the defense of the Simmons trade has been salary relief. The heck do we need all this money for?

People are overlooking Guerra in this deal. He's not far behind Albies as a SS prospect.
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Judging from its actions, the FO believed as recently as the CJ/Bourn/Swisher trade that contention in 2017 was something to shoot for. I'm not sure if it still believes that. But certainly the Simmons trade has a pretty significant negative effect on the outlook for 2017.
 
nsacpi said:
Judging from its actions, the FO believed as recently as the CJ/Bourn/Swisher trade that contention in 2017 was something to shoot for. I'm not sure if it still believes that. But certainly the Simmons trade has a pretty significant negative effect on the outlook for 2017.
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They apparently believe Albies could be up as early as late next year, so I could see the argument that we'll have both Albies and Newcomb up in 2017. But I still don't see where we're spending the money unless we're going to be trading for expensive pieces.
 
smootness said:
They apparently believe Albies could be up as early as late next year, so I could see the argument that we'll have both Albies and Newcomb up in 2017. But I still don't see where we're spending the money unless we're going to be trading for expensive pieces.
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Albies and Newcomb could be up in 2017. Many things could happen. Some less likely than others.
 
nsacpi said:
I strongly suspect that in the unlikely event we tried to get one of those two, we would have to pay a premium to get them. Very unlikely we would be either players preferred choice.
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Both have expressed a desire to play in Atlanta before. Both are very cerebral players who prefer to stay out of the spotlight. Both tend to know what is going on in the pipeline of the franchise and could potentially be swayed by the idea of building the franchise back up. And finally, the money.
 
smootness said:
In terms of overall value, our return was similar. We got Wisler, a pick that became Riley, and got rid of BJ. However, in hindsight, if we're not planning on competing in 2017, why the heck did it matter that we got rid of BJ? That savings is going to end up not being used for anything. In fact, some of the defense of the Simmons trade has been salary relief. The heck do we need all this money for?

People are overlooking Guerra in this deal. He's not far behind Albies as a SS prospect.
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I watched Guerra a bunch last year. He was considered a glove-first guy but he has a nice level swing and looked like he was beginning to show some good gap power . . . then he started hitting HRs. He made a surprising number of errors at SS, but he was playing in a rotation with Mauricio Dubon and Moncada (Dubon and Moncada split 2B, then Guerra DH'd or sat when Dubon got SS reps; eventually Dubon was promoted to clear the logjam) which couldn't have helped his comfort level. He has good range and throws lasers. He's behind Albies (eye, contact, consistency), but not by as much as you'd think. I thought he was a mile ahead of Jorge Mateo, the other stud SS prospect in the league. Really great pickup, even though Margot is getting the ink. Probably would never play an inning for Boston, though, given the Bogaerts-Pedroia-Moncada logjam.

The throw-in, Carlos Asuaje, was a guy I'd love to have seen end up in ATL as a depth piece. Hard worker, mentored the younger Latin players, plays everywhere, does everything right. Never going to be a star, or even a starter, but could be a solid bench guy.
 
Count me among the folks that don't understand how the Padres got a top 25 bat while the Braves only seem to be able to get pitching.
 
Enscheff said:
Count me among the folks that don't understand how the Padres got a top 25 bat while the Braves only seem to be able to get pitching.
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I thought that was explained well somewhere here -- it's difference between dealing Kimbrel and dealing Kimbrel with Upton's contract. Yeah, the Braves get an even better return if The Player Formerly Known as BJ wasn't attached.
 
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