Klaw rates us the number 2 farm system...I think he's high
- Thread starter Russ2dollas
- Start date
CyYoung31
Shift Leader
Oh, I'm sure we can dig up plenty of quotes from him about how Wren had built a team that would be competitive for years to come.
I guess like your Shelby quote.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
This is all well and good and while my post here may deviate from the original post a bit, here goes. My beef with Wren was always pretty simple: It appeared that he never had an overarching blueprint of what the franchise would look like and how that blueprint would be maintained over time. I don't think Billy Beane walks on water, but outside of his short-sighted deals at the deadline last July, you pretty much know what his standard operating procedure is going to be and how things will play out in the short and long terms. I never got that feeling with Wren. I'm old and it's more than just "win baby" for me. I get that teams may go through cycles and I can buy that if there is a transparent plan in place that governs expectations. At the end of his tenure, I got the feeling that Wren was putting patches on patches.
If you look at the list above, you'll note that several of those guys were packaged in deals (usually 3-for-1 or 4-for-1 or 5-for-2) to land marquee level guys. You can keep doing that as long as you have the bodies to do it. I'm not bemoaning the trade of Nick Ahmed, but you have to keep drafting guys like that in volume if you are going to keep doing prospects-for-contributor trades and we were running out of guys.
The other angle on this is the overall budget picture in Atlanta and if you aren't going to be in a position to retain the marquee players you have traded for (or drafted in the case of Freeman and Heyward), you have to have ready replacements. Looking at the list that's been assembled, I don't see many ready replacements available. Which means you need a multitude of tradeable prospects to keep the train on the tracks. I've contended all along that the team was going to hit a crossroads at the end of the 2015 season and Hart and company simply moved up the timeline. One can argue that Wren should have been given one more year to play out what he had assembled and I would have had no problem with that. I'm simply convinced that his strategy (flawed in my opinion) was the wrong one given the budget constraints placed upon him. And in fairness to Wren, I believe he was under pressure to win without much flexibility and as time wore on, I don't imagine Schuerholz was getting any less icy.
In total, I don't see Wren's drafts being horrid and his international signings weren't that bad either (he managed to get some pretty decent under-the-radar guys out of Latin America). He followed a fairly straightforward pattern and he did take some interesting projection guys (Lien, Salazar, Grosser) so it's not like he was all about high floor/low ceiling guys top-to-bottom. But so many guys on the list above are simply replacement level players and where nsacpi and I politely disagree on the grading of drafts is whether or not guys reach the big leagues.
I like Roy Clark, but he's not perfect either. In fact, this draft looked a lot like Wren's drafts in some respects (only college pitchers instead of college hitters) and we'll see how it pans out. I frankly don't know how high our system should be ranked right now. I would guess top five, but that prediction would be predicated on the volume of mid-range pitching prospects as opposed to anything else. We're still light in the hitting department and our best position prospects look to be three-to-five years away.
Tapate50
Well-known member
Couldn't agree more.
The fact that guys like Castro, Povse, and Camargo have to be listed among what would be the top guys in our system kind of proves my point.
When I said 'since 2007,' I meant after the 07 draft. Sorry if I wasn't clear on that. 07 was obviously a great draft.
So taking out that draft, the only guys on that list who ever had a chance of being more than just a solid piece are: Simmons, Minor, Spruill, Drury, Graham, and Wood. And we nailed it on Gattis. (I don't include Davidson and Fulrnchek because I just don't know who was dictating strategy at that point; it was certainly a welcome surprise, though).
But either way, that's not a good list. All of the other guys were always going to be, at best, a good utility guy or bench bat, good reliever, or middling starter. It's not like we had a bunch of busts, and that's precisely the problem. These guys mostly have become what they were supposed to, and we were still left severely lacking in young talent in the system.
Don't say that or else you'll get labeled a Wren hater around these parts.
BTW, I've wondered the same thing about who was calling the shots after Hart was brought over.
I'm fine if someone wants to give Wren credit for it. It happened under his watch. But we made a pretty clear shift last year to high upside HS guys in the draft and going stronger in the international market. Wren was then fired, and we went even stronger on both again this year. That leads me to believe Hart came in and was already calling some shots and pushing Wren out.
That may not have been the case, but it seems to make logical sense.
chop2chip
Well-known member
Everybody prefers top end talent, but that's a separate entity entirely from quality of farm system.
Remember that KLaw once rated the Padres the number one system in baseball based entirely off of depth. I don't view this as Law being inconsistent for the sake of taking a shot at Wren. The Braves probably have the most top 200 prospects in all of baseball.
Because this year he rates teams high that have little depth, but high top end talent (which is the approach I would agree with in evaluating).
But the Braves have unusual depth right now. He's shown in the past that he values unusual depth.
It's funny to me that anything positive in the Braves direction is either destined to change or due to some ulterior motive, in your mind.
I'll put out my own farm system ranking with the Nats ahead of the Braves if it will make you feel better.
chop2chip
Well-known member
Well sure I think he does a good job giving credit to those type of systems, but he also isn't ignoring (nor does he have a history ignoring) plethora. Besides, KLaw has always had a soft spot for high risk high reward prospects and the Braves are loaded in the low minors with that exact type of prospect.
I mostly just don't understand questioning his integrity because you don't agree with his methodology.
No, I think the Braves have a better farm system. They have loads more depth than the Nats; they just don't have Giolito.
I said in this thread the Braves have a good farm system, but it was odd that Law would rank some teams high on depth and some high on upside instead.
The only questioning of his integrity I have is because he's a huge asshole.
Agreed 100%. It was basically a 180 in strategy and I'm glad it happened.