Let's Talk About Media

Julio3000 said:
Yes, that's always gone well. Let's do more. Does that mean that Trumpistas are neocons now?
Click to expand...

We didn't need to do a thing. The Iranian people see their government for what they truly are while Hussein gave pallets of cash to terrorists. Crime against the world
 
Julio3000 said:
How has this become about supporting or not supporting protest against the regime? I'm really perplexed. Who on this board has objected to that?
Click to expand...

Honestly, I wasn't exactly sure what you were for...other than getting on thethe, and telling us we aren't all-knowing about this situation. You guys just come across oddly to me at times when it comes to any criticism of Islam or Islamic regimes by anybody on the American conservative end of the political spectrum. I'll never quite get that...

And maybe that's just me.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jaw
BedellBrave said:
Honestly, I wasn't exactly sure what you were for...other than getting on thethe, and telling us we aren't all-knowing about this situation. You guys just come across oddly to me at times when it comes to any criticism of Islam or Islamic regimes by anybody on the American conservative end of the political spectrum. I'll never quite get that...
Click to expand...

Well, I'm fuzzy on the assumptions you're drawing, and why. Certainly you know me better than to assume that I am somehow pro-hardline-Islamist-theocrat?

I'll refer you to the same list of thethe's posts to which I referred him. That's what I was responding to. For him, and apparently you, to read objection to that as some kind of insufficient dislike for theocratic & repressive government is unfortunate and inexplicable to me.

thethe and I can have the same end in mind and disagree sharply about the best or most realistic means of getting there. I'm trying, quietly and somewhat foolishly, to try to introduce some nuance into the conversation.

As I tried to when asking thethe if we could feel confident in stating unequivocally what the protests are about, or when suggesting that trying to refract it through our own cultural biases and political preferences was probably a bad idea. As I would now when humbly proposing that "America and Israel aid the overthrow of a government which will be replaced with ?????" is probably a bad path to hie down, as is "anything is better than ______," as

Or that these demonstrations might generate a wonderful opening for the reformists in power(ish) to continue to thaw things out OR might end up as an excuse for the SRC and hardliners to shut them out and lash out at the regional "salafists" whom they're already blaming for the unrest, leading to a hotter regional conflict. My ultimate point is that it's a little more complicated than MAGA talking points.
 
Here's a suggestion. When wanting to add nuance, when wanting to warn of mere "MAGA talking points," to a fellow democracy-loving, non-Islamic Westerners, lead with your opposition to such hardline regimes before going after the critics. As I know you are aware, Westerner liberals are often seen as naively siding first with Muslims of most any stripe over fellow Westerners who are critical of Islam/Muslims. If you want better dialogue with fellow Westerners, I'd think it'd be wise that you actually make clear where you agree with some of the criticism along the way and lead with that. Again just a suggestion from one who seldom gets it right and one who recognizes that I should heed my own advice.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jaw
BedellBrave said:
Here's a suggestion. When wanting to add nuance, when wanting to warn of mere "MAGA talking points," to a fellow democracy-loving, non-Islamic Westerners, lead with your opposition to such hardline regimes before going after the critics. As I know you are aware, Westerner liberals are often seen as naively siding first with Muslims of most any stripe over fellow Westerners who are critical of Islam/Muslims. If you want better dialogue with fellow Westerners, I'd think it'd be wise that you actually make clear where you agree with some of the criticism along the way and lead with that. Again just a suggestion from one who seldom gets it right and one who recognizes that I should heed my own advice.
Click to expand...

Respectfully, my friend, that sounds like a problem on your end.

I just assume (on this forum, at least) that it's a given and I don't have to link to a disclaimer stipulating that I decry the clerical regime in Iran and that my sympathies are with pretty much anyone who is brave enough to publicly resist them (same goes for SA, Turkey, et al).

But I'm not going to accept the idea that I can't simultaneously believe that and criticize thethe's frequent and casual dehumanization of Muslims.
 
I've made a conscious effort to withdraw a bit from the news lately to focus on more important things, but I read enough about the protests here to become curious. I stopped in at the local cell phone store that gets our business because I've formed a bit of a relationship with the Palestinian owners and I wanted their take on this. The wife was actually discussing this on the phone with family in Palestine when I visited. The husband's opinion was that combined with Syria and the downfall of ISIS, a democratic government in Iran could actually make long term peace in the Middle East possible. Unsurprisingly, he thinks Israel will need to make some concessions for that to happen, but he thinks that the Iranian and Syrian governments were the biggest obstacles to that. He also credited the Obama admin for supporting the Arab Spring movement as critical in the process. He became kind of hard to follow around that point, but I think there was something about getting the Islamic State types to come out of their holes and give the rest of the Middle East a chance to smack them down. He did say that he never would have come here if he had believed peace at home was a possibility, and that his wife is already talking about going back.
 
BedellBrave said:
Sure, none of us are omniscient but when does that ever stop any of us from commenting and voicing opinions? And why would it cause any of us not to voice hopes that Iranians can know a better future? Just because Trump has made pro-protestor remarks?
Click to expand...

I agree with you here, but Trump bears some of the responsibility for this. I voted for him and am generally pleased with the policy moves he has made, but his character and obnoxiousness tend to cast everything he supports in a negative light. It is a lesson I have tried to apply to my own life. No one's views are seen in a vacuum.
 
Jaw said:
I agree with you here, but Trump bears some of the responsibility for this. I voted for him and am generally pleased with the policy moves he has made, but his character and obnoxiousness tend to cast everything he supports in a negative light. It is a lesson I have tried to apply to my own life. No one's views are seen in a vacuum.
Click to expand...

Agreed.
 
Julio3000 said:
Respectfully, my friend, that sounds like a problem on your end.

I just assume (on this forum, at least) that it's a given and I don't have to link to a disclaimer stipulating that I decry the clerical regime in Iran and that my sympathies are with pretty much anyone who is brave enough to publicly resist them (same goes for SA, Turkey, et al).

But I'm not going to accept the idea that I can't simultaneously believe that and criticize thethe's frequent and casual dehumanization of Muslims.
Click to expand...

Well then add it to the long list of my problems. ;-)
 
DTt6ek6VoAAgepf.jpg:large
 
Trump "could have undermined the messaging so much that he could control exactly what people think, and that is our job."

-- Mika Brzezinski, MSNBC host & daughter of former U.S. National Security Advisor Zbigniewi

[video=youtube;quU_Tbv96Wk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=44&v=quU_Tbv96Wk[/video]
 
sturg33 said:
Trump "could have undermined the messaging so much that he could control exactly what people think, and that is our job."

-- Mika Brzezinski, MSNBC host & daughter of former U.S. National Security Advisor Zbigniewi

[video=youtube;quU_Tbv96Wk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=44&v=quU_Tbv96Wk[/video]
Click to expand...

Scary.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top