Lies Gun Grabbers Tell, or, How to Educate Your Progressive Friends on Guns

[Krgrecw]

What many gun people think and rightfully so, is that once you open the door on any type of regulations or restrictions, that door will never be closed again. The left doesn’t really want to close loopholes, they want to ban guns. That’s the end result. Everyone knows that.

 

[Carp]

I’m probably not far off from Jaw as far as his bottom line about hypothetical remedies to the ambiguity in gun law and jurisprudence. I agree with what striker said in the SCOTUS thread about proposed gun regulations often tending to be reactive and not particularly efficacious. I would welcome legislation and jurisprudence that would make it more clear-cut and concrete. Jurisprudence around guns is in a ridiculous state, and I would welcome welcome more clarity about what the rights and responsibilities of the fed vs the states are, etc. IMO, Heller was one of the most egregiously bad SC decisions of my lifetime, not because I disagreed with the principle of the decision (I did) but because the legal reasoning of the opinion was just such blatant hocus-pocus horse****.

That said, while I admire the desire for objectivity and specificity in the conversation, I found the items I this thread to include a bit of fuzz and sleight-of-hand.

The Forbes article struck me as a bit propagandistic, but it even noted that the number of DGU is not known, and indeed hard to know. The Kleck analysis is considered to be high, and significantly so. It suggests some issues with over reporting that aren’t properly weighted. Further, we’re then comparing it with gun crime statistics in an effort to draw a conclusion about the relative safety of guns, which strikes me as intellectually dishonest. There are myriad well-reported problems with collecting that data, many of which result in it being undercounted. Whatever the case, not including it in a comparison purporting to assess gun safety is a bit of a trick.

Alongside that is my anecdotal observation that as many conversations that I’ve had with folks online and IRL over the years, everyone seems to express concern about restrictions on “responsible gun owners,” and how onerous those restrictions are. Could be true, as far as it goes, but I find that (“responsible gun owner”) to be a really nebulous term. You are until you aren’t, I guess. Like, I guess I’m not really sure that every single gun advocate I’ve ever crossed paths with is a responsible gun owner any more than any random person is a responsible motor vehicle operator. As I think I’ve said before, my personal reason for not having a firearm in the house is because I think it would be more likely to hurt someone in the household rather than protect same. Where I live, and in this era of a decades-long decrease in violent crime, I think that’s a smart bet. I have a lot more respect for gun advocates who will just admit that they think that guns are cool and fun than for people who try to make an extremely tenuous and cherry-picked case that guns make them safer, or worse yet, that the point of private gun ownership is eventual and ill-defined resistance to “tyranny.”

I do worry about that. But I also don't leave a shell chambered. And a shotgun isn't exactly easy for a 2 year old to wield. As she gets older, I will probably keep the gun completely empty and keep the shells on the top shelf of the closet or somewhere where she won't know to look. I will also likely enroll her in a gun safety course at some point. I doubt she will be much the outdoors woman, but I'd feel safer knowing she is aware of how they work and how to safely treat a gun.

 

[Carp]

Cheap, parts are interchangeable, and it fits smaller shooters.

The AR platform is popular with youth shooters. My son has taken several deer with a .223

The price is absolutely practical (or at least it was). And while it is ideal for younger shooters, I mostly see older adults as the ones using it. Maybe that's anecdotal, but it's the most popular gun in America, so I would think my observation holds true. I suppose that's because it's fun to shoot, supports a large magazine, and it looks like a military style weapon. I've shot one a few times. They are fun, but not especially more so than any other gun I've used.

I'm sure several people have taken down a deer with an AR. But it's not your typical hunting rifle, especially for larger game like deer.

 

[McCann'sCans]

What many gun people think and rightfully so, is that once you open the door on any type of regulations or restrictions, that door will never be closed again. The left doesn’t really want to close loopholes, they want to ban guns. That’s the end result. Everyone knows that.

As a member of 'tHe LeFt', I don't want that, so everyone must not know it. I want gun ownership to be limited to responsible gun owners with common-sense restrictions on who owns guns, what guns they own, training to own a gun, etc. so that we can be a safer country. I'm genuinely curious if you can point to any politicians or serious coalition that has made a statement to the effect of 'we want to ban guns.' Until such statements are made, it's tough for me to view this as anything other than yet another boogeyman that republican politicians float out there to keep the base riled up.

 

[Tapate50]

Personally, I don't want bad people that use guns in criminal instances to have gun training.

 

[Jaw]

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[thewupk]

You are correct here. And it's frustrating to see people make that mistake.

That being said, the top gun also doesn't have the attachments the bottom gun does, making the top gun inherently less deadly overall. The bottom gun certainly isn't used for hunting. I hunt occasionally (may be once a year). Most of my friends/family hunt. I've never known them to use their AR15 hunting. Pretty much all of them own one because they are fun to shoot and they look cool. It is, I believe, the most popular gun in the US. Simply put, it isn't a super practical gun. If I asked them, I'm sure they mention something about home protection, but a shotgun is just as easy to use and WAY more effective since you don't have to be very accurate.

From a reliability/ease of use/over pentation standpoint I think AR pistol setup with .223 rounds is the way to go for home defense