well, you've stated he's been too risk-averse for your liking. you've been adamant you want a move, and the only real option so far has been Springer. i've taken that to me you want him to just get Ozuna done.
Looking Ahead - The 2020 Offseason Thread
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well, you've stated he's been too risk-averse for your liking. you've been adamant you want a move, and the only real option so far has been Springer. i've taken that to me you want him to just get Ozuna done.
tululush
New member
Oh I watched. But nobody could have predicted Soroka’s or Hamels injury, or King Feid opting out. Soroka will be back. You sign one of Morton/Smyly to take Hamels spot, and then you fill in Felix’s spot with one of Wilson/Wright. If you have multiple injuries you’re sunk again. You can’t predict it so let’s not pretend we need to anticipate 2-3 starters going down. That’s what your minor league depth is for. I think they should have signed one of Morton/Smyly, invested the other 11-14 million in a bat, and then seen what pitchers remained on the free agent market to sign to a cheap deal for insurance.
and he's 100% spot-on.
no one can predict any specific pitching injury, but you can always safely assume a pitching injury or 4 are going to occur.
being comfortable with Wright and Wilson on a contender is wild IMO. no thanks.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
If we didnt sign Smyly and Soroka starts on the DL, rotation is Fried/Anderson/Morton/Wright/5th guy. Barely better than last years. If Braves were quietly in on Springer, and flirted with Realmuto then AA has some money to spend even after signing Smyly/Morton.
tululush
New member
His analysis is spot on, I just wished we had taken a different approach like I outlined above. Fill one spot, sign your bat, then go find a cheap, insurance plan for sp depth. Heck Lester signed for 2 million. That additional 9 million instead of Smyly would have helped.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
No. Maybe my tone suggests that. I did like Springer and I like the deal he signed. I also think he could have filled around the edges already and I would have been happy. But I think he is just waiting to grab a bargain. Basically saying I know a big name will he left without a chair when the music stops and I will get him. I just hope he is right. After Ozuna and I guess turner too we don’t have too many fringe guys left either.
tululush
New member
Soroka should be back fairly early on, and if we have a delay he likely wouldn’t miss time. Anyways, what time he does miss we can cover up.
If we end up signing Ozuna after all then I will be the first to admit I am wrong. AA knows the order of operations better than any of us, and if he knew he had Ozuna whenever he wanted him and needed to pounce on Morton and Smyly right away then so be it. Until we know that we’re all speculating. I just wish he would have signed his bat in between his two pitching signings. Lester signed for 2 million. The savings between him and Smyly would have helped tremendously.
Again, if I end up being wrong I’ll be the first to admit it.
PawPawMaxwell
Called Up to the Major Leagues
Why hasnt AA signed Ozuna? Two words: Freddie Freeman
How can you negotiate with the reigning MVP and pay someone who is at best a DH when you agree to pay the DH more money than the MVP who BTW is recognized as the best at his position?
How can you negotiate with the reigning MVP and pay someone who is at best a DH when you agree to pay the DH more money than the MVP who BTW is recognized as the best at his position?
Lester signed for $5M. only $2M count against the cap, but they are paying him $5M this year.
in a very small sample size, Smyly had far better productions and better metrics. i'd agree the Smyly contract seems high, but if he produces like last year, it's a steal. they had insurance plans last year and it still ended up a mess. i'm happy going into the season with a much better, deeper starting rotation. can never have too much quality pitching.
but what if filling in around the edges wasn't possible?
i'm of the opinion that if Brantley said he'd take 2/$32 from Atlanta, AA would have signed him to that. what if Brantley legit wanted to stay in Houston?
i'm ok not paying Pederson regardless, but what if the promise to start was the deal-breaker? he wasn't getting that in Atlanta. i'm not sure how that's AA's fault.
Makes perfect sense from his perspective except for one thing - he apparently needs the Braves worse than the Braves need him. If Tampa is the only other offer he has on the table, he needs to realize...
1.) Everybody else in baseball knows that it is a short-term offer for below market value
2.) Nobody wants him to play defense, and they honestly don't care whether he thinks he can or not
3.) Everybody else in baseball knows he's not going to put together a season like he did in 2020 four more times
His reps are still trying to play the leverage game when they simply have no leverage - he's now in the same place Realmuto was a few weeks ago. AA has probably given him a "take it or leave it" offer that is shorter than he wants and that pays him as a DH - even if he plays defense this year. His agents think they can use the Rays as leverage? Seriously???
Complete supposition on my part, but I'm guessing AA told him "we'll give you 3 years/$45 million" and that there's nothing to negotiate. That would be enough to outbid the Dodgers for Turner if he's honestly considering signing elsewhere - they're not going to give him 3 years.
It seems odd to say it, but Marcell is the one that needs to be careful here if he doesn't want to spend this season in Tampa on a one year deal - they've probably told Turner they'll give him that 3/45 deal if he wants it. If he calls them tomorrow and says "yes", Riley's the LF in 2021 with Waters taking over next season and Turner sliding to DH. There's also a chance that a potential Ramirez/Chapman/Suarez deal has legs - the asking prices may be too much right this second, but that could change in a heartbeat, and AA might even have a change of heart and decide that he's willing to pay what he's being asked to pay.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
I love the pitching additions. I would like some pen help still but we might roll some young guys that way. Greene would be my pick of who is left.
Southcack77
Well-known member
Fried seems to have developed into a strong starter, albeit one with an injury history and a blister history.
Anderson was a rookie who made basically one turn around the league. How does one depend on that holding up?
Soroka is rehabbing a torn achilles that might not permit him to begin the season on time.
Kyle Wright was terrible. So were Wilson and Touissant.
Not sure how adding two starters into that mix was not a good idea.
Sheffield10
Arizona Fall Leaguer
I think everyone is nitpicking each others comments. AA has played it safe, and it has paid off, but at a certain point being overly “safe” can also hurt your competitive window... so can bring too aggressive.
No one has said they shouldn’t have signed two pitchers, just that that one of the deals should have been made AFTER acquiring a bat.
To be honest, I think everyone agrees and we are all just bored.
I might be in the minority, but I’d say offer a huge 1/2 year deal to Ozuna and Turner and see who takes it. It won’t cripple us. Hell maybe a 1 year + team option, or 2 year + option.
Throw big money at 1/2 years and beat the AAV of other teams. And I mean stupid money. YOLO
No one has said they shouldn’t have signed two pitchers, just that that one of the deals should have been made AFTER acquiring a bat.
To be honest, I think everyone agrees and we are all just bored.
I might be in the minority, but I’d say offer a huge 1/2 year deal to Ozuna and Turner and see who takes it. It won’t cripple us. Hell maybe a 1 year + team option, or 2 year + option.
Throw big money at 1/2 years and beat the AAV of other teams. And I mean stupid money. YOLO
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Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Seems like 3-4ish mil is the range of what Greene/MM would be worth. Dont know if we could get both back. If one, i'd keep MM b/c of closing experience. If money's there, i'd bring both back.
tululush
New member
Thank you for correcting the $. I guess the question is what do you want Smyly and let’s for argument sake say Puig, or Lester and Ozuna. I’m making up this scenario, but you get the point.
I agree with you, you can never have enough pitching, and our rotation this year should be the antithesis of last year’s rotation, but I feel maybe there’s a happy medium in there? Lester, or someone like that, and Ozuna feel like the happy medium.
bravesfanMatt
Steve Harvey'd
That is a lot of what ifs. What if he told Brantley that he would do 2/35 plus a team option for same AAV. What if they offered Joc 1/8 and said you will start 75 -85% if your performance is there. Who says he wouldn’t take that. What about snagging Eaton as a platoon partner. Or Rosario on a one year deal. It is all speculation.
Southcack77
Well-known member
I don't know a thing about Ozuna's market beyond what I read here and there.
Realistically though, how much money and how many years could the freaking Rays have possibly put on the table?
So either they have the best lowball offer on the table right now and Atlanta is not interested in offering until the DH is finally resolved, or he's praying that someone will swoop in with a bigger guarantee the longer he sits out there as a value proposition.
I can't imagine that he's getting anything like what he wants.