Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Nats wont pass us, we'll see what the Mets do.
Looking Ahead - The 2020 Offseason Thread
- Thread starter clvclv
- Start date
Nats wont pass us, we'll see what the Mets do.
That's my main point. The money isn't necessarily a big issue for me. It's that it is a guaranteed contract for a mediocre reliever. Does anyone really think he gets a guaranteed contract at this point? With a 2nd year option even.
The question that I'm a little surprised no one's asked yet..."Is this a precursor to Jackson being non-tendered?"
If that happens to be the case, it actually shaves $750,000 off of the current payroll. Non-tendering Jackson, Camargo, and Duvall saves you $9.8 million - if Jackson and Camargo's replacements cost ~ $1.85 million (with a minimum salary replacement for Johan - Delgado maybe?), that's $8 million to put towards an everyday LF.
Won't get you Ozuna or Brantley, but it's a start (and all but pays for Rosario if the Twins actually are looking to move on from him).
If that happens to be the case, it actually shaves $750,000 off of the current payroll. Non-tendering Jackson, Camargo, and Duvall saves you $9.8 million - if Jackson and Camargo's replacements cost ~ $1.85 million (with a minimum salary replacement for Johan - Delgado maybe?), that's $8 million to put towards an everyday LF.
Won't get you Ozuna or Brantley, but it's a start (and all but pays for Rosario if the Twins actually are looking to move on from him).
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msstate7
Well-known member
Fair enough. Just seems AA has bought enough goodwill to throw a million at Josh tomlin.
And maybe the criticism is stopped short of calling him an actual idiot, but it seems every offseason and trade deadline is a failure on this board. Hell, I've been critical of AA too.
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I find it unlikely Duvall is non-tendered when he is likely only looking at roughly 5 million. You aren't likely to replace his production for less. Also, that would leave us with only 2 OFers overall, with one of them being a rookie who has questions regarding his bat. As much as I like Pache, he may not be ready for a full time position. He had a handful of at bats this year that were a mixed bag and he's played a grand total of like 35 games above AA, including the playoffs this year. I don't necessarily have a big issue with giving him a shot to start the year, but putting all your eggs in that basket is foolhardy. Having Duvall around as a back-up plan in case Pache falls on his face is pretty nice.
No one is above criticism. Granted, his moves have mostly worked out, but Melancon and O'Day were certainly not the most efficient uses of our budget, even if they were good pitchers for us. And obviously Hamels was a waste.
Again, Tomlin isn't making much. But it isn't necessarily the money I have an issue with. It's guaranteeing a contract and a roster spot to a fairly mediocre reliever this early in the off-season. Especially when he's the exact type of pitcher that would most likely be forced to take a ST invite anywhere else. I mean I'm willing to give about anyone a ST invite and if they're considered one of the top 26 guys, then I wouldn't care.
Maybe nsacpi is right and there is more than we know and his veteran leadership actually is super important to the team, and they're rewarding a guy that is well liked by the players and FO.
Southcack77
Well-known member
He's been given credit for helping both Wright and Minter. I think it is a case where the person who filled this role would not make any less money and he's a good fit for the team's personality. He's adequate for mop up duty. It's just a decision that they had made and didn't see any downside in going ahead and putting in ink.
Personally, I'd have preferred a player who is a more credible roster presence since it seemed like Tomlin might actually have to pitch meaningful playoff innings at one point. Of course the situation that lead to that was a pretty unlikely one in terms of injuries. And it may well be unlikely that he makes a playoff roster this time. He probably would not have made it if rosters hadn't been expanded.
Southcack77
Well-known member
I don't think there was anything too terrible about the amount of money Melancon was paid. The degree to which it was inefficient was made up for by efficiencies elsewhere.
lol Newk....I do not want him pitching for the Braves anymore.
edit: Also looks like Newk will be going to Arb1 so the difference between the two would be even less.
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nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I think the deal with Tomlin in part reflects his willingness to accept an assignment to AAA if that is needed for a while. So you guarantee him a little extra dough for that flexibility. Of course another team could claim him if we DFA him.
PawPawMaxwell
Called Up to the Major Leagues
I agree that it is very unlikely that Duvall is non-tendered. However there are lots of tidbits in play here. Can AA move Ender and not eat that $9M? How close is Waters? Ozuna? Will AA obtain a 3b replacement, i.e. trade for Bryant? Riley can play LF as well.
Is Duvall a valued trade chip?
Newk was great as a reliever. He just sucks as a starter.
And we're keeping Newk around regardless unless he is traded, so the difference in the two financially is irrelevant.
Don't misunderstand - the ONLY situation I can see Duvall being non-tendered is one like I laid out. Like I said, sending all 4 of our non-tender candidates (including Dayton) packing creates ~ $8.9 million after paying Tomlin and Delgado (assuming he's added as the backup SS). Assuming AA's looking for a LF that doesn't need a platoon partner, that pays the vast majority of what Rosario is projected to make (or more than what Peralta is owed), meaning you've added your full-time LF (and a LH bat) while only spending a couple million (at most) of your available dollars. That would allow him to play on most of the rotation options that have been discussed, bring back one of Melancon/Greene (or another veteran pen guy), a backup C, and potential platoon-mate for Riley.
That's actually doable with $23 million - $10 million for Morton, $4 million for Melancon/Greene/whomever, $4 million for Flowers, $3-5 million for Holt/Shaw/Moran.
MadduxFanII
Swallowed by Mark Bowman
The Tomlin thing strikes me as one of those situations where there's a conflict between maximizing every possible advantage/seizing on every possible efficiency to squeeze out a marginal win vs. the simple reality of getting things done as an executive. Could we have waited out Tomlin for a few months, gotten him for a few hundred thousand bucks less? Maybe found someone who could do Tomlin's job a little bit better for a little bit cheaper? Maybe. On the other hand, those hypotheticals represent relatively small marginal advantages, Tomlin's clearly respected in the clubhouse and there's something to be said for addressing a situation as early as possible so you can move on to other things.
Nerfherders
Well-known member
You can't underestimate clubhouse presence. If he's really turned Wright around by working with him on his mound location, that's worth way more than $1 million.
NYCBrave
Well-known member
Which is really all it is. There is something to be said about keeping a clubhouse happy by having guys who fit that fold. We will never fully know if that's the case with Tomlin, but we've heard whispers of it already as far as the Wright example. Don't forget last year we also saw a bit of Hamels doing some mentoring in his short time with the team. So there are those intangible benefits.
PawPawMaxwell
Called Up to the Major Leagues
Heck. Maybe he is viewed as making Kravitz a better pitching coach tho IIRC Braves hiccupped at paying Mazone more than $100K.