Does anyone think Simmons' godlike season in 2013 overinflated his WAR and thus overvalued Tron's season?
Looking ahead to 2016
- Thread starter bravesfanforlife88
- Start date
I think that's the idea.
Yeah. Simmons is a horrible hitter and should be replaced asap. Otherwise he'll be overpaid in a few years.
So your argument that Carpenter or Peralta are better is that WAR over infates defense. Which tells me nothing.
You need to check your logic. The Braves lost the division series in '93 when Maddux joined, most likely as a result of winning the NL West with all the exhaustion that caused to get into the post-season. Heyward is a good player, not nothing special. He was presented years ago as a franchise player. He will never reach that level. Deal with it. He doesn't walk on water. Yeah, he's had an All Star game and a Gold Glove, but so what? If he gets a $200MM contract from the Yankees, well, good for him. Maybe that will justify your fanboyism.
The Braves won the '93 NL West division because of The Crime Dog. They were barely in the race until he was acquired. After, they went on a tear. Do you need to consult his fWAR for that year to be sure or do you have some other ignorant argument to attempt to advance first? News flash and maybe they don't mention this at Fangraphs, but the Expos were far and away the best team in baseball and would have one It All that year if not for the strike.
Thanks for reminding me about the division title streak though. I never would've have known that without you.
What does any of that have to do with what I said?
Tell me why you mentioned Maddux. Heyward doesn't even belong in the same paragraph.
zitothebrave
Connoisseur of Minors
Maddux was our best player during our 90s run, Heyward was our best players sans his injured years during our last playoff burst.
Not comparable players because ones an all-time great, and one's just really good. But the logic is the same more or less.
Then I suggest you go back and read my post. Heyward is one of the main reasons the Cards are as good as they are this year. You trying to say he's not because the Cards have won before. That's very poor logic. Just like saying Maddux, Crime Dog, Andruw, or Chipper didn't help the Braves because the Braves won before they arrived. It's not hard to follow.
Chipper was injured in '93, big guy. Andruw Jones wasn't even part of the team until '96.
Word of advice, if you're going to posture as a know-it-all, at least do your homework first.
blueagleace1
Playing the Waiting Game
Just throwing this out there.. What would it cost -in terms of prospects- to acquire Hanley Ramirez with Boston eating some cash?
It's clear he isn't a LF and the reports coming out recently state that he'll be moved to first base next year. Could he be an option for us at third base with Olivera moving to LF?
Again, just brainstorming different possibilities to acquire needed offense.
It's clear he isn't a LF and the reports coming out recently state that he'll be moved to first base next year. Could he be an option for us at third base with Olivera moving to LF?
Again, just brainstorming different possibilities to acquire needed offense.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I think you're on the right track. There are a number of others on contracts that their current teams might want to move: Braun, Kemp, Ethier (given they have Peterson, Crawford and Puig), Choo, Pence.
But I see that trade happening a year from now. For 2016, we are likely to check out what we currently have at third (Olivera, Garcia) and left (Swisher, Bourn, Eury Perez, Cunningham). The idea will be to find out about whether Olivera can play third and try to rebuild value in guys like Swisher and Bourn so we can flip em. Given Bourn and Swisher are free agents after next season, there will clearly be an opening in left or at third (if moving Olivera to left makes sense).
Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit is it? I'm aware they weren't on the 93 team. That's kind of the point.
It's not comprehension, as much as just tired of you endlessly recycling the same comments. Still anxiously awaiting yet another "he doesn't love baseball" or maybe even a fat joke. Hilarious stuff.
I'm pretty sure I've never made those comments before. Nice try though.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
To me, if something is too simplistic, it doesn't tell the whole story and I don't think WAR tells the whole story. As per the defensive end of WAR, it likely does a good job of ranking players by their defensive ability, but at the same time, it may possibly overstate the importance of defense in calculating the overall value of players.
On Simmons, he's all-world as a defensive player, but he's a terrible hitter and I don't think he's ever going to get any better and if that's the case, the question has to be asked if he's a luxury that a team bereft of offense can't afford. I can't remember who on the board haled Simmons as one of the top twenty position players in the National League earlier in the season (when he was on a hot hitting streak). That's the kind of comments that really make me laugh. Simmons value is optimized when he's surrounded by a strong set of offensive players. I think he's wasted in Atlanta right now.
Sure, it could possibily overstate the importance of defense thus overvaluing those players who get a lot of value from it. However I feel most people just feel threatend by new ideas that in some cases squash the notion that certain players can be better than others. A lot of people have preconcieved ideas on what a good player is and can't let that go. The idea of WAR is that it does try to tell the whole story. Hitting, base running, and defense. I think a lot of people don't try and learn what WAR is trying to do and just simply see someone like Heyward having a higher WAR then your typical masher OF who has crap defense and think there is no way that can be the case.
Regarding Simmons. When he's hitting well (which for him seems to be around a 105WRC+) his performance is that of a top 20 player. That being said I feel it's obvious he won't be that type of hitter any time soon for a whole season. And I think he needs to be traded while there is still the notion that he won't be a non crappy hitter. His hitting is so bad that his awesome defense only makes him an average player.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
I'm not threatened at all. I just think WAR has tilted too strongly toward defense in an attempt to promote a notion of the "all-around" player that may not be completely accurate. I've always found it difficult to gauge players outside of the context of the team on which they play.
nsacpi, I think Simmons' otherworldly defense would probably spike his value and make it closer to Heyward's overall score and, as I stated above, I think that's a problem with the current weighting of defense in a player's overall WAR (even with the far greater number of chances handled by a SS compared to a RF).