Machado or MooseTacos deal

nsacpi said:
Agreed. We can get Beltre or Moose without trading away Camargo. I think something along the lines of Wisler and Demeritte would do the trick. This is a 3 month rental. Unless it is for an elite player like Machado, rentals don't cost much in the way of prospects.
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The interesting question (for me) is would a package of Fried, Cumberland, and Demeritte net you Moose AND Herrera?
 
Rather let Camargo start at 3B than trade for MooseTacoes. I would do a trade for Machado depending on the cost. I would give up Camargo in a heartbeat in this deal if Orioles want him. Also would try to use Wright as the main trade piece.
 
I guess I just don't get it. I would never trade someone like Camargo, who has actually shown a decent amount of upside so far, for a 3 month rental. Even one as talented as Machado. This isn't a team that is one player away from a WS ring and I'm 99% sure that we have no chance of signing Machado to a deal this offseason. Camargo is a cheap controllable asset that is, at best, a 3 WAR 3rd baseman and at worst a really really good utility guy. The good news is that I don't believe a Machado rental would be expensive enough to require someone like Machado. The Orioles have put themselves in a bind. They are wasting the last season of their most valuable asset in a non-competitive season. They waited too long to unload him and have gotten unlucky this year because it looks like 3rd base is going to be a definitive buyers market. No reason to overpay for him at all.

Personally, I think we could do just fine with Camargo manning 3rd for us all year. But if a trade is going to happen, I would prefer that we go after someone like Moose or Beltre.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Rather let Camargo start at 3B than trade for MooseTacoes. I would do a trade for Machado depending on the cost. I would give up Camargo in a heartbeat in this deal if Orioles want him. Also would try to use Wright as the main trade piece.
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Wait so now we are going to have to give up Camargo AND a top 30 pitching prospect for a 3 month rental? Jiminy Christmas...
 
BeanieAntics said:
Wait so now we are going to have to give up Camargo AND a top 30 pitching prospect for a 3 month rental? Jiminy Christmas...
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Yeah, I'm not giving up Wright for two months of Machado either. The Phillies are certainly welcome to do something like that if they want. He'll probably hate Kapler and it will all work out for the best.
 
BeanieAntics said:
I guess I just don't get it. I would never trade someone like Camargo, who has actually shown a decent amount of upside so far, for a 3 month rental. Even one as talented as Machado. This isn't a team that is one player away from a WS ring and I'm 99% sure that we have no chance of signing Machado to a deal this offseason. Camargo is a cheap controllable asset that is, at best, a 3 WAR 3rd baseman and at worst a really really good utility guy. The good news is that I don't believe a Machado rental would be expensive enough to require someone like Machado. The Orioles have put themselves in a bind. They are wasting the last season of their most valuable asset in a non-competitive season. They waited too long to unload him and have gotten unlucky this year because it looks like 3rd base is going to be a definitive buyers market. No reason to overpay for him at all.

Personally, I think we could do just fine with Camargo manning 3rd for us all year. But if a trade is going to happen, I would prefer that we go after someone like Moose or Beltre.
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O's certainly waited way too long, they "should" have traded him last deadline, thats 1.5 years of control and the controlling team gets the QO as well.

This winter, the controlling team would get a full year plus the QO.

Now?

No QO, and as stated, there's options out there (Lowrie, Beltre, Moose, maybe Frazier), offers will be worse than what they got in the winter. Maybe they get one good prospect, a fringe top 100 guy and a couple lottery tickets.
 
This is contract year Machado. Basically adding a RH Freeman into the lineup and a gold glove defender at 3B. Makes us legitimate world series contenders.
 
This may have already been posted, but:

Hearing the main players in the Machado trade sweepstakes are the Phillies & Braves, with the Cardinals a distant third. O's like ATL pitching prospects. Trade unlikely with PHI without Sixto Sanchez and/or Enyel De Los Santos. Looking for P and SS help. Cleveland also lurking.
 
UNCBlue012 said:
This may have already been posted, but:

Hearing the main players in the Machado trade sweepstakes are the Phillies & Braves, with the Cardinals a distant third. O's like ATL pitching prospects. Trade unlikely with PHI without Sixto Sanchez and/or Enyel De Los Santos. Looking for P and SS help. Cleveland also lurking.
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So by looking for pitching and SS help, Camargo makes some sense for them along with a fringe top 100 pitcher...makes sense.
 
UNCBlue012 said:
This may have already been posted, but:

Hearing the main players in the Machado trade sweepstakes are the Phillies & Braves, with the Cardinals a distant third. O's like ATL pitching prospects. Trade unlikely with PHI without Sixto Sanchez and/or Enyel De Los Santos. Looking for P and SS help. Cleveland also lurking.
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Requiring one of Wright/Gohara/Soroka (comparable value to Sixto) for Machado is a non-starter, obviously. However, there is a chance the O's value a Braves pitcher much more than the Braves do, and a deal could make sense.

When we talk about hypotheticals with the O's, we have to remember just how terrible that FO is. It is safe to assume they have nearly zero analytical horsepower, and they are still living in the 90s (or maybe even the 80s). This the same team that gave Davis huge money for no apparent reason, and bid against themselves for Cobb to pay full asking price when nobody else was remotely close to giving him that kind of money.

They almost certainly won't be getting Sixto for a Machado rental, but the idea of lumping De Los Santos in with him as if they are even in the same realm of value is extremely telling. If they value someone like Allard/Fried/Wentz enough to take either as the centerpiece for Machado, AA has to strongly consider that move depending on what the additional pieces are.

Plopping Machado in the 2 hole between Markakis leading off and Freeman batting 3rd would make for a very potent top of the lineup, and likely improves the team by 2-3 wins over the final 2-3 months.
 
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Will Machado play 3b? If he refuses, it's a no go too. His fangraph's def value is at -0.8; Swanson is at 6.5 (missed time too)
 
Players play where managers tell them to play.

He can force a team to let him play SS when he is on the FA market.
 
Enscheff said:
Requiring one of Wright/Gohara/Soroka (comparable value to Sixto) for Machado is a non-starter, obviously. However, there is a chance the O's value a Braves pitcher much more than the Braves do, and a deal could make sense.

When we talk about hypotheticals with the O's, we have to remember just how terrible that FO is. It is safe to assume they have nearly zero analytical horsepower, and they are still living in the 90s (or maybe even the 80s). This the same team that gave Davis huge money for no apparent reason, and bid against themselves for Cobb to pay full asking price when nobody else was remotely close to giving him that kind of money.

They almost certainly won't be getting Sixto for a Machado rental, but the idea of lumping De Los Santos in with him as if they are even in the same realm of value is extremely telling. If they value someone like Allard/Fried/Wentz enough to take either as the centerpiece for Machado, AA has to strongly consider that move depending on what the additional pieces are.

Plopping Machado in the 2 hole between Markakis leading off and Freeman batting 3rd would make for a very potent top of the lineup, and likely improves the team by 2-3 wins over the final 2-3 months.
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I agree with all this. I hate to mortgage the future on a rental, but at some point, the cost makes a ton of sense. Something along the lines of Allard, Sims, and someone not in our top 25, may be? Since we are dreaming, I wonder what we would have to add in order to get Bundy as well?
 
Carp said:
I agree with all this. I hate to mortgage the future on a rental, but at some point, the cost makes a ton of sense. Something along the lines of Allard, Sims, and someone not in our top 25, may be? Since we are dreaming, I wonder what we would have to add in order to get Bundy as well?
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I also think it is easier to resign than sign someone. Especially if that person witnesses how close that team really is to winning. Every player wants to get paid. But every player wants to win too. Manny comes in and we make a deep playoff run. Then he might want to resign with us. All that said it would still be a rich contract and I am not sure I want to commit that much payroll to one player.
 
Carp said:
I agree with all this. I hate to mortgage the future on a rental, but at some point, the cost makes a ton of sense. Something along the lines of Allard, Sims, and someone not in our top 25, may be? Since we are dreaming, I wonder what we would have to add in order to get Bundy as well?
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I think it's more likely they get Machado and a BP arm like O'Day or Britton than Bundy.

I'm guessing Bundy would be prohibitively expensive, if they are willing to trade him at all. They're probably going to make the same mistake the Braves did with Julio and will try to rebuild around him rather than convert him into future value. It will go about as well as that course of action did for the Braves.
 
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