How many pitchers have we developed that were legitimate top 10 prospects in baseball or performed like they should have been rated that highl?
Mallex Smith
- Thread starter striker42
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How many pitchers have we developed that were legitimate top 10 prospects in baseball or performed like they should have been rated that highl?
Weren't both Hanson and Teheran top 10 at one point?
Teheran and Hanson off the top of my head.
I think the reason many believe we've developed pitching better is because of where a lot of the quality pitchers have come from...Beachy and Medlen were both non-prospects, Hanson came from very late in the draft, Minor was drafted high but became better than anyone thought possible, etc.
For the most part, the successful hitters we've developed always seemed to have more natural talent than a lot of the pitchers.
Also, the fact that from about 2008 until now, there hasn't been much in terms of hitting talent that has come through the system. You didn't hear much about not developing hitters up until that point. But since Heyward and Freeman became prospects, it's pretty much just Simmons that's come along since, and he's never been considered a bat.
That recent history has a lot of bearing on what people think of the way we develop.
You have to think pretty highly about your baseball intelligence to come out and say something along the lines of, "I can easily see that hitting is more valuable than pitching right now, while the front office minds known as Hart, Coppy and JS are too stupid to understand this obvious fact and have now painted themselves into a corner where they will never be able to assemble a decent lineup".
Fact of the matter is the Braves DID try to accumulate young impact arms. Why? Because pitchers break down...all the time. In my opinion, the best way to mitigate the impact of that simple fact is to grow your own cheap pitchers, ride them until they break, and then replace them with a newer model. How do you accomplish that? By stockpiling young impact arms.
If you have a $120M payroll, where would you prefer to spend your $20M per year on an elite talent? On a pitcher that is one pitch away from being useless, or a position player who is much less likely to suffer a career ending injury? Are you going to pay Freddie Freeman, or CC Sabathia?
It's pretty clear to me the Braves plan to grow pitchers and buy hitting. If they can get an impact bat for cheap, like Olivera, they will trade away some of that pitching to get him. Seems like a very logical plan to me, especially given the fact they can't afford to have a broken down pitcher on the payroll making $20M+.
And enough with citing the Cubs model...give the Braves those draft picks and I bet their farm system would look much the same as the Cubs currently does. Same thing with the stupid Nats...give the Braves consecutive #1 picks when 2 generational talents are available, move them into a huge market with a brand new stadium, and I bet they suddenly look like a great franchise. Ditto the Astros and their plethora of high picks. The Braves have built their organization despite mediocre draft positions for decades.
Fact of the matter is the Braves DID try to accumulate young impact arms. Why? Because pitchers break down...all the time. In my opinion, the best way to mitigate the impact of that simple fact is to grow your own cheap pitchers, ride them until they break, and then replace them with a newer model. How do you accomplish that? By stockpiling young impact arms.
If you have a $120M payroll, where would you prefer to spend your $20M per year on an elite talent? On a pitcher that is one pitch away from being useless, or a position player who is much less likely to suffer a career ending injury? Are you going to pay Freddie Freeman, or CC Sabathia?
It's pretty clear to me the Braves plan to grow pitchers and buy hitting. If they can get an impact bat for cheap, like Olivera, they will trade away some of that pitching to get him. Seems like a very logical plan to me, especially given the fact they can't afford to have a broken down pitcher on the payroll making $20M+.
And enough with citing the Cubs model...give the Braves those draft picks and I bet their farm system would look much the same as the Cubs currently does. Same thing with the stupid Nats...give the Braves consecutive #1 picks when 2 generational talents are available, move them into a huge market with a brand new stadium, and I bet they suddenly look like a great franchise. Ditto the Astros and their plethora of high picks. The Braves have built their organization despite mediocre draft positions for decades.
The Cubs/Nats systems/recent callups is a heck of a lot more than simply 2 draft picks. People always make that argument like if the Cubs didn't have Bryant/Schwarber; they would have nothing. They would still have all their other prospects plus whatever first round picks they would have had instead of Bryant/Schwarber
I agree with this. Pitchers are becoming more and more like RB's in the NFL. Stockpile them, ride them hard, and pawn them off on someone else when they get expensive or exposed. I like this model. The Rays have been doing very well with this out of necessity.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Since I'm on ignore from him, I'd like someone else to answer: who has made this argument, or anything close? They have a lot of pieces. Everyone knows this.
Schwarber and Bryant are, indeed, their two best young position players, however. They got them at #2 and #4. That is important. AGAIN: If we stunk enough to get Bryant, this bitching would be quieter. But, we didn't. We didn't get the #2 pick and the chance to get one of the top young players in the entire game.
So yes, their two best young players came by way of being really bad and getting great draft picks. If you want to make the argument we take a pitcher over a guy like Bryant, be my guest. I'd love to hear it. Maybe Wren would have, though, as he took Hursh one pick before Judge. But that should be pinned on Hart, I suppose.
Oh yeah and while we're at it, who did the offense-focused Astros take over Bryant? What position did he play? Hm..
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
So no chance of the Braves pursuing Price or Cueto this off-season right?
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
Yup.
Tapate50
Well-known member
They have drafted very well, but the fact remains they needed EXTREMELY high draft picks in each round and truckloads of money to assemble those rosters (Soler on the intl mkt, Lester last season). Frankly, two advantages we have never had the pleasure (save chipper jones pick- and look how that turned out) of having.
So I guess if the Cubs\Nats picked where the Braves did every year prior to this, you are saying they would still be stocked because they draft THAT much better?
They've also been rebuilding for 3 or 4 years. We've been doing it for a year. If we weren't trying to be competitive until 2018, I'm sure we'd have a darn good system by then.
The Cubs have a top 5; maybe top 10 farm system right now despite all the guys graduating, including Solder, Bryant, Schwaber.
In the last few years, yes each have drafted significantly better.
sturg33
I
Sounds like Wren's fault. DAMN HIM
I agree. Maybe if we sucked so hard while he was here ou farm system would have been better and maybe he would have kept his job?
NYCBrave
Well-known member
Very great points made here, and the "grow pitching / buy hitting" plan is logical to me. Only issue with that is, buying hitting hasn't worked out so well for us in recent memory, so that is scary.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
It is very logical. But will they follow that plan. Or will they pursue guys like Price and Cueto.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
agreed.
Tapate50
Well-known member
Maybe they just identify the best values rather than clinging to only one school of thought leading to missed opportunity , no?
NYCBrave
Well-known member
Unfortunately I think we have no choice. I don't think we have an ace coming through our pipeline. In addition, I don't feel confident in signing either of those