Masset, Eveland DFA'd. Viz, Carpenter called up.

Good to see these moves, we might actually have a decent bullpen now if both Viz and Carpenter do well. Carpenter had been doing great for Gwinnett and has MLB experience with the Angels. He really earned this call-up.
 
I worry that the stripes of Freddies whip are going to show soon on the rumps of Johnson, Avilan and Grilli. If they were horses Peta would be going nuts. Since they are three of the top trade chips I would be one p*ssed off GM in watching how Freddie is using (abusing) those guys.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I worry that the stripes of Freddies whip are going to show soon on the rumps of Johnson, Avilan and Grilli. If they were horses Peta would be going nuts. Since they are three of the top trade chips I would be one p*ssed off GM in watching how Freddie is using (abusing) those guys.
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Hopefully we trade them all before Fredi breaks them. :)
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I worry that the stripes of Freddies whip are going to show soon on the rumps of Johnson, Avilan and Grilli. If they were horses Peta would be going nuts. Since they are three of the top trade chips I would be one p*ssed off GM in watching how Freddie is using (abusing) those guys.
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They arent over-used over anyone else.

Stl has three in the top 10 in games pitched of RP's.

Mil has 5 in the top 40 of RP's.

SF has 4, who EVERYONE praises Bochy for.

I can get bashing Fredi but i disagree here, Harry.

All managers use their best RP's to secure wins, its common.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I worry that the stripes of Freddies whip are going to show soon on the rumps of Johnson, Avilan and Grilli. If they were horses Peta would be going nuts. Since they are three of the top trade chips I would be one p*ssed off GM in watching how Freddie is using (abusing) those guys.
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Hell! Who else does he have to use? There would be something wrong if he wasn't using his only effective pitchers, and with Avilan, that effectiveness is inconsistent at best.
 
KB21 said:
Hell! Who else does he have to use? There would be something wrong if he wasn't using his only effective pitchers, and with Avilan, that effectiveness is inconsistent at best.
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Their value is in their trade value. Not saving or holding a victory in effort to finish .500.

Pitch them, sure. But keep them on plenty of rest and see if you can develop a pen for when these guys are gone, which they will be soon enough. If that means you lose a game here or there that you might have won otherwise, so much the better at this point.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Their value is in their trade value. Not saving or holding a victory in effort to finish .500.

Pitch them, sure. But keep them on plenty of rest and see if you can develop a pen for when these guys are gone, which they will be soon enough. If that means you lose a game here or there that you might have won otherwise, so much the better at this point.
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To you, maybe. To EVERY MANAGER in baseball, they aren't going to give up wins just to keep a player's value high.
 
Then he has no vision and no management from above.

There comes a time when the bigger picture takes precedent. When the Braves started there rebuild they signaled what the bigger picture was.

Staggering around all season, wearing out arms and designations in effort to fall over the .500 line on the last day is just stupid in the big picture. That is especially true since the rules for rebuilding teams favor those with the worst record: Draft, rule 5, International, waivers, etc.etc.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Their value is in their trade value. Not saving or holding a victory in effort to finish .500.

Pitch them, sure. But keep them on plenty of rest and see if you can develop a pen for when these guys are gone, which they will be soon enough. If that means you lose a game here or there that you might have won otherwise, so much the better at this point.
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you're basically saying winning doesn't matter. that's the worst message anyone can give.

The front office needs to build for the future, but the guy on the field needs to play to win, every night.
 
stpeteirish said:
you're basically saying winning doesn't matter. that's the worst message anyone can give.

The front office needs to build for the future, but the guy on the field needs to play to win, every night.
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No, I'm saying that winning is secondary to development and talent acquisition at this point. Every move by the front office has been made with this in mind. When the Manager is doing things, like wearing out three of the best trade chips left before the All Star break, with no realistic chance of contending for anything, then you have a break down in communication between the Manager and General Manager that needs to be addressed ASAP.

Does anyone believe that Grilli and Johnson will be here, barring injury, at the end of the season? I don't. Most don't. Then you don't take a chance on hurting them or overworking them into fatigue and diminished capability. And, at some point, you will be working with a new pen, so why not start developing some of those guys, even if it costs a game here or there short term? Chances are you will get those games back because of the experience gained by the new guys after Grilli and Johnson are gone. And if not, so what.

For this season, 70-92 would be a hell of a lot better than 81-81 anyway. They don't give out trophies or pennants in baseball for mediocre .500 teams.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
No, I'm saying that winning is secondary to development and talent acquisition at this point. Every move by the front office has been made with this in mind. When the Manager is doing things, like wearing out three of the best trade chips left before the All Star break, with no realistic chance of contending for anything, then you have a break down in communication between the Manager and General Manager that needs to be addressed ASAP.

Does anyone believe that Grilli and Johnson will be here, barring injury, at the end of the season? I don't. Most don't. Then you don't take a chance on hurting them or overworking them into fatigue and diminished capability. And, at some point, you will be working with a new pen, so why not start developing some of those guys, even if it costs a game here or there short term? Chances are you will get those games back because of the experience gained by the new guys after Grilli and Johnson are gone. And if not, so what.

For this season, 70-92 would be a hell of a lot better than 81-81 anyway. They don't give out trophies or pennants in baseball for mediocre .500 teams.
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You're assuming he's been told not to pitch them so much. Not defending Fredi here any more than to say his job is to win games. If the front office wants him to preserve those arms it's on them to convey that, otherwise Fredi's simply doing what he's supposed to do in an effort to keep his job - win as many games as possible.

Until there's word that the brass is unhappy with his pen management, I see little choice other than to give Fredi the benefit of the doubt - and thus far the only complaints I've seen attributed to anyone are on message boards. I don't want him to blow them out either, but personally think if Hart wants to trade them for anything of value he needs to quit worrying so much about what to do with Chris Johnson and trade them.
 
KB21 said:
Hell! Who else does he have to use? There would be something wrong if he wasn't using his only effective pitchers, and with Avilan, that effectiveness is inconsistent at best.
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Well Harry, you got a good reminder yesterday what the difference is pre and post extra innings. think we should have just gone straight to Masset, Eveland and Brigham? Get the loss out of the way?
 
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