Mayo Joins The List...

[TheBravos]

Actually the HO trade has "kinda" turned out somewhat decent if Kemp keeps producing. The real dog ends up being the Simmons trade if Newcomb bombs.

 

[rico43]

It did suck. And it wasn't just that the move was a mistake but going for an established player was a mistake, imo. Wood should of netted a nice prospect instead of wasting it on the supposed surplus value of HO.

As was just mentioned previously, all GMs step on their d*** from time to time. This is a way to measuring the screw-ups. Schuerholz gave up half the farm for Teixeira, which got them nowhere, so they traded Teixeira for Casey effing Kotchman, which only compounded the disaster.
Coppy masterminds deal for Olivera, setting up a potential franchise disaster. But in less than a year, he's able to ship out Olivera and his entire contract for a 100 RBI guy who could have 2-3 such years left in him in Matt Kemp. It is possible to take chickens*** and make chicken salad.

Oh, yeah. I love Fried's upside. I especially like how they left him in Rome all year to enjoy both good health and success. He could easily skip a level, even though that would deny him the singular experience of being an original Fire Frog.
Fried the Fire Frog. It just rolls off the tongue.

 

[Southcack77]

If you want to, sure. Do you think their initial plan was correct or that they should have opted for a longer term plan instead? If you are going to rebuild then rebuild and not this half and half crap that they tried to keep some fan interest heading into the new stadium. I feel like Markakis and BJ deals were part of this. So was the HO deal.

id he interested a little to have this argument fleshed out, but I think there may be assumptions about the timetable that are mistaken.

The rebuild easily could have always been a long term buildout that the braves both put a nice face on public ally and mde minor attempts at remaining respectable within a certain class of transactions that did not break the long term window.

 

[thewupk]

As was just mentioned previously, all GMs step on their d*** from time to time. This is a way to measuring the screw-ups. Schuerholz gave up half the farm for Teixeira, which got them nowhere, so they traded Teixeira for Casey effing Kotchman, which only compounded the disaster.
Coppy masterminds deal for Olivera, setting up a potential franchise disaster. But in less than a year, he's able to ship out Olivera and his entire contract for a 100 RBI guy who could 2-3 such years left in him in Matt Kemp. It is possible to take chickens*** and make chicken salad.

It's a decent recovery that could be good. But the sad truth is even without the HO trade the Braves could have gotten Kemp for nothing and paid all of his salary like they currently are. It was a gamble on HO but I would of rather gambled on a prospect instead of trying to rush the rebuild. So my issue was more with the strategy than the actual trade itself. Like I said, the Marakkis deal and BJ/Kimbrel trade fall into this line of thinking as well.

 

[thewupk]

id he interested a little to have this argument fleshed out, but I think there may be assumptions about the timetable that are mistaken.

The rebuild easily could have always been a long term buildout that the braves both put a nice face on public ally and mde minor attempts at remaining respectable within a certain class of transactions that did not break the long term window.

That's certainly possible. I do think a better course of action was to trade Kimbrel by himself and not include BJ's toxic contract with it to get a better return. And trading Wood for a prospect was likely a better course of action as well which many people on here wanted when news of that trade first popped up.

 

[TheBravos]

As was just mentioned previously, all GMs step on their d*** from time to time. This is a way to measuring the screw-ups. Schuerholz gave up half the farm for Teixeira, which got them nowhere, so they traded Teixeira for Casey effing Kotchman, which only compounded the disaster.

Coppy masterminds deal for Olivera, setting up a potential franchise disaster. But in less than a year, he's able to ship out Olivera and his entire contract for a 100 RBI guy who could have 2-3 such years left in him in Matt Kemp. It is possible to take chickens*** and make chicken salad.

Oh, yeah. I love Fried's upside. I especially like how they left him in Rome all year to enjoy both good health and success. He could easily skip a level, even though that would deny him the singular experience of being an original Fire Frog.

Fried the Fire Frog. It just rolls off the tongue.

Exactly...the Teixeira trade was simply the worst trade in franchise history compounded by the Kotchman trade. Coppy made some serious lemonade by getting Kemp. On a side note....how in the world did they look at the HO trade and say "Yeah...that's good!!". I will never understand it...horrible...just horrible. At least Teixeira WAS a great player. HO was completely unproven, injury prone and older and we gave up a TON of assets. I'm a fan of the front office and think they have done a good job overall though.

 

[thethe]

It did suck. And it wasn't just that the move was a mistake but going for an established player was a mistake, imo. Wood should of netted a nice prospect instead of wasting it on the supposed surplus value of HO.

The initial deal was a disaster. But we are still using outcomes to evaluate. If Olivera was as good as some scouts thought than his on tract and production would have been immensely valuable. Alas it did not work out. It happens. They saved the deal by getting Kemp at least.

 

[thewupk]

The initial deal was a disaster. But we are still using outcomes to evaluate. If Olivera was as good as some scouts thought than his on tract and production would have been immensely valuable. Alas it did not work out. It happens. They saved the deal by getting Kemp at least.

Still lots of dead money in the deal even with Kemp. I wouldn't consider it saved. And you are right if it worked out like some scouts though, presumably all with the Braves, then it would of been great. I'm just not sure how high of a possibility that really was. And again, the main issue with this deal is the same as trading for some ace right now. It doesn't fit the Braves contention time frame.

 

[Russ2dollas]

If you want to, sure. Do you think their initial plan was correct or that they should have opted for a longer term plan instead? If you are going to rebuild then rebuild and not this half and half crap that they tried to keep some fan interest heading into the new stadium. I feel like Markakis and BJ deals were part of this. So was the HO deal.

I think they were correct.

The BJ deal was not them.

The HO deal was bad. Adding BJ to Kimbrel was bad and I said it at the time. I get why they added BJ, but I didn't like it. The Markakis signing made no sense to me but I don't think it's really impacted anything.

I would have traded Tehran if we got a haul, but I don't know what the offers were. So far they seem to be correct on Tehran and FF.

I wish we would have had the number 2 pick in the draft instead of number 3, but I don't think Markakis was the difference there.

I'm not a Kemp guy, but I hope to be proven wrong.

 

[Southcack77]

The initial deal was a disaster. But we are still using outcomes to evaluate. If Olivera was as good as some scouts thought than his on tract and production would have been immensely valuable. Alas it did not work out. It happens. They saved the deal by getting Kemp at least.

It's really not fair to say Oliviera in any way lead to Kemp.

The padres just ageeed to pay the braves money to take Kemp's contract. That came in the form of the padres taking and buying out Olivera.

Oliviera was never really something had any value to San Diego.

 

[striker42]

It's really not fair to say Oliviera in any way lead to Kemp.

The padres just ageeed to pay the braves money to take Kemp's contract. That came in the form of the padres taking and buying out Olivera.

Oliviera was never really something had any value to San Diego.

This. We could just as easily have gotten Kemp by picking up the amount of money we're picking up and sending a nothing minor leaguer back.

The only potential saving grace of the Olivera deal is the draft pick.