Megathread: Braves lose Maitan, Bae and 10+ plus International Sanctions.

Super said:
If JS and JH both keep their jobs, that is astounding. They're ultimately responsible for JC. They need to go for a lot of reasons, but this is now the absolute best one.
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How does JS fire one GM and have a second resign and not get anything on his hands. That is BS. I called BS on him when he talked about the Braves way, etc b/c he had responsibility for Wrenn too. Nobody is asking for micromanaging, you have to let the GM do his job, but if there is a fundamental issue with the direction that is on the top of the pyramid.
 
JS has enough insulation between he and the GM spot that I don't think he's in danger, unfortunately.

JS is above Hart, who was above Coppy.

Hart should have direct connection to whatever Coppy got in trouble for, since Hart IMO had the final say over whatever Coppy did. I also think JS had final say over Hart, but delegated most of the final supervisory decision making to Hart. This way he can look good and take credit for whatever good happens, but can say he didn't know or didn't approve anything bad that happened.
 
nsacpi said:
yes...whatever happened to supervisory responsibility
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Agreed. Even if Hart feels strongly he is on the moral high ground with all of this, he is in an executive level position that has accountability. If the Braves need to get their house in order for a few weeks or a few months, I suppose that's reasonable. But once order is restored, he needs to do the right thing and resign.
 
Christ, if the bottom line on this is that the elder Johns stay in place and Dayton Moore becomes GM, I might jump off a bridge.
 
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Forever Fredi said:
He doesn't have his hand in day to day stuff, but I'm sure he's still consulted and briefed on every big move we make.

Remember that JS wanted to make Hart the permanent GM, before he made him Interim post-Wren firing. And again when he was still Interim GM. He wasn't shy about it either of those times.
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I have no doubt JS has a say on big moves. But a GM doing crooked stuff in Latin America isn't really going to be traced back to the semi-retired guy who only takes part in the big stuff. That's an issue of day to day oversight. It's far more of an issue for Hart than it is for JS.

Honestly, getting rid of JS wouldn't change much considering his role in the organization. The guy catches way more flack for complaints about decisions the organization makes than he deserves at this point.
 
smootness said:
The question is why it was a displeasure to deal with us. If it's just cause Coppy's a dick, then fine. If it's because he wasn't easy to pry assets away from, then I sure hope we don't suddenly become more pleasurable for other GMs.
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I've often said that when I listen to Coppy or watch him, I get the impression he's a weasel. I don't know if that does or does not have anything to do with whether people like him or not. I never thought he was a particularly effective face of the organization. That never really affected my evaluation of the rebuild though.

The concern I have him with him being fired is whether there will be negative repercussions from MLB for the rule breaking and whether the new Front Office decides to take a completely different tack. At this point, I guess any approach might be ok.

In a away, a change in the guard lets them do things like pay to be rid of Kemp without having to take a PR hit. Ironically enough the fall guy for the front office "mistakes" could be Coppy, which I guess always seemed somewhat probably. It was the awkward stats guy that took the fall in Philly, not the owners that approved it. And the next move was to bring in a big name who''d had success.

So the Drayton Moore rumor to me was always the most interesting part of Rosenthal's initial column.
 
striker42 said:
I have no doubt JS has a say on big moves. But a GM doing crooked stuff in Latin America isn't really going to be traced back to the semi-retired guy who only takes part in the big stuff. That's an issue of day to day oversight. It's far more of an issue for Hart than it is for JS.

Honestly, getting rid of JS wouldn't change much considering his role in the organization. The guy catches way more flack for complaints about decisions the organization makes than he deserves at this point.
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I mean, he handpicked Wren to be the next-GM after him when he retired to be Team President. He fired Wren, and then wanted to pick Hart to be permanent GM. He ended up creating a new title so Hart could stay on the team in a direct role. He and Hart both handpicked Coppy to be the next-GM. JS was the one on TV in the booth that announced Coppy was GM before it was ever publicly announced or the title was actually given to him. If Dayton Moore does come back here, he was one of JS's favorite sons here. That spells it out pretty clearly to me.

The issue here, is despite being semi-retired, he still can have influence on Hart and Coppy without taking direct blame for it.

It's like in Godfather when Vito became semi-retired. Mike ran the family business, but always sought his father's consultation. Mike and Vito masterminded the hits on the Five Families during the Baptismal. That's why they demoted Tom so he wouldn't have direct ties to it.
 
From MLBTR:

"While it’s not yet clear what transgressions the Braves have committed, the resignation of a general manager — be it forced or voluntary — would represent the most extreme outcome for any scrutiny under which GMs have come in recent years. Padres general manager A.J. Preller was suspended for one month after his team’s medical disclosure practices were revealed to be substandard, and the Red Sox were forced to tear up some agreements with international prospects they’d signed in package deals as a means of circumventing international bonus restrictions. Neither of those incidents, however, resulted in the resignation or firing of a high-ranking official."

So why did Coppy need to go? Why didn't the Braves rally around him?

Who is still so blinded by ignorance that they can't see this was due to the rift in the FO between the statheads and scoutheads, with the scoutheads winning?

Coppy took the fall for the Braves not meeting revenue goals in 2017. It is the last card upper management has to play before they are fired themselves. Simple as that.
 
This does smell all too convenient as an excuse to go after Moore.

Firing Coppy during a good rebuild would not have looked so swell. With this as an opportunity to jump ship and go after Moore makes sense. This would explain why the Braves made no attempt to support Coppy.
 
Forever Fredi said:
I mean, he handpicked Wren to be the next-GM after him when he retired to be Team President. He fired Wren, and then wanted to pick Hart to be permanent GM. He ended up creating a new title so Hart could stay on the team in a direct role. He and Hart both handpicked Coppy to be the next-GM. JS was the one on TV in the booth that announced Coppy was GM before it was ever publicly announced or the title was actually given to him. If Dayton Moore does come back here, he was one of JS's favorite sons here. That spells it out pretty clearly to me.

The issue here, is despite being semi-retired, he still can have influence on Hart and Coppy without taking direct blame for it.

It's like in Godfather when Vito became semi-retired. Mike ran the family business, but always sought his father's consultation. Mike and Vito masterminded the hits on the Five Families during the Baptismal. That's why they demoted Tom so he wouldn't have direct ties to it.
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I thought of the Godfather as an analogy as well. It really does work. Semi-retired Vito is a good analogy for what JS is right now. However, if there was going to be any blame it would land on Mike, not Vito.

And people act as if Coppy's tenure was a total nightmare. There were issues but he's not leaving desolate club behind. There's a reason that you're already hearing that the Braves GM job will be coveted around the league. Hart and Coppy did a pretty good job lining up talent.

I also think the Dayton Moore hate is undeserved. The guy won a World Series with the Kansas City Royals. The ROYALS!!! Yes the team looks to be entering another long rebuild at this point but that's the cost of winning with a small market team these days. You can't afford the big free agents so you have to leverage everything you have for a window at a title.

Also, how many other small market teams have won a world series in the last decade?
 
Preacher said:
I doubt this is over Kevin maitans deal, 'handshake deals' aren't uncommon in Latin America and the Braves are certainly not the only deal that agrees with prospects before the J2 deadline. While frowned upon, I can't imagine they'd hammer the braves on that and ignore all the other cases of it happening across MLB.

It's strange that they were reportedly looking into our 'domestic picks' as well. Did we somehow manipulate draft boards or sneak money to players to help sign?
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I'm guessing Kyle Wright too.
 
Enscheff said:
Coppy resigned exactly 3 hours ago. There is already an article up naming the Top 5 replacement options.

Yeah, nothing shady going on here haha.
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I could write an article on the top 5 GM candidates in 3 hours. Shorter if I had the connections of a beat writer.
 
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