Megathread: Braves lose Maitan, Bae and 10+ plus International Sanctions.

Super said:
I'd go out on a limb and say no way Maitan is declared a FA. I can't imagine he won't remain a Brave.
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I feel the same way. But as fans, I think it's just a "worst case scenario" defensive mechanism. I doubt this is quite the punitive ordeal that is being bandied about. I also doubt the Braves have been innovative in their ways to bend the rules. This is a case of Coppy being unlikable and people willing to throwing him under the bus.
 
A part of me expects MLB to make an example out of the Braves. Atlanta is high enough profile to serve as an example but isn't a sacred cow like the Red Sox (the league's last opportunity to make an example). The more I read the more I get the feeling that they're going to throw the book at us.

It wouldn't shock me to see most of last year's international signings declared FA's, to see Maitan declared a FA, to be banned from signing international players for two years, and to lose the number 8 pick. That would serve as a deterrent for other teams looking to skirt the rules.
 
Forever Fredi said:
Hope it’s a smoke screen and we actually go after McLeod. He’s been part of Boston and Cubs’ revivals. They had more money than us but smart scouting and drafting can cut the replacement times earlier.
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Well, if McLeod was in any way responsible for dishing out $60 million per to the trio of Heyward, Lackey, and Zobrist (which is more than half the Braves' payroll), we might want to give it a second thought. I enjoy statistical analysis and I think what some of the more stat-minded posters bring to the board is valuable, but when it comes to running a baseball team, there has to be baseball guys in the mix as well. And I'm sick of the effin' Cubs/Red Sox comparisons. Huge payroll teams. Cubs stunk it up for five or six seasons, but they drafted well and built up a solid minor league system that they leveraged into key parts for the big club. Sounds like what Cox/Snyder built for the Braves in the late-1980s to fuel our run in the 1990s. Good drafting and signing and key free agent additions that came the courtesy of having a fat wallet. Cubs and Red Sox have done it more by concentrating on hitting over pitching and that is a solid approach as the game has changed over the past two decades (as Enscheff has pointed out). Cubs' young core will all be hitting their arbitration years and Cubs will have the financial resources to keep them together.

I think the tale of Jackson Melian needs to be told to help illuminate the international market issue. Melian was a highly-sought after prospect from Latin America in the mid-1990s. Then-Braves' Latin America superscout Carlos Rios had him pretty much locked up for the Braves as a 15-year-old. No formal handshake, but Melian's father was a part-time scout for the Braves and Rios had been all over Melian for years. But (doing my best Gomer Pyle) "Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!" Yankees give Rios a big raise to work for them and Melian ends up signing with the Yankees. Yankees get punished? Heck no.

The Latin American baseball market is rife with the things the Braves are being accused of doing (and have probably done). Families get all kinds of goodies. Somehow, fathers become part-time scouts (as in Melian's case). These players don't have agents, but they do have handlers and those guys' palms get greased. Like someone pointed out earlier in the thread, it's not unlike college football recruiting with the big difference being many of these kids from Latin America are coming from dirt-poor circumstances and this is their only way out.
 
50PoundHead said:
Well, if McLeod was in any way responsible for dishing out $60 million per to the trio of Heyward, Lackey, and Zobrist (which is more than half the Braves' payroll), we might want to give it a second thought. I enjoy statistical analysis and I think what some of the more stat-minded posters bring to the board is valuable, but when it comes to running a baseball team, there has to be baseball guys in the mix as well. And I'm sick of the effin' Cubs/Red Sox comparisons. Huge payroll teams. Cubs stunk it up for five or six seasons, but they drafted well and built up a solid minor league system that they leveraged into key parts for the big club. Sounds like what Cox/Snyder built for the Braves in the late-1980s to fuel our run in the 1990s. Good drafting and signing and key free agent additions that came the courtesy of having a fat wallet. Cubs and Red Sox have done it more by concentrating on hitting over pitching and that is a solid approach as the game has changed over the past two decades (as Enscheff has pointed out). Cubs' young core will all be hitting their arbitration years and Cubs will have the financial resources to keep them together.

I think the tale of Jackson Melian needs to be told to help illuminate the international market issue. Melian was a highly-sought after prospect from Latin America in the mid-1990s. Then-Braves' Latin America superscout Carlos Rios had him pretty much locked up for the Braves as a 15-year-old. No formal handshake, but Melian's father was a part-time scout for the Braves and Rios had been all over Melian for years. But (doing my best Gomer Pyle) "Surprise! Surprise! Surprise!" Yankees give Rios a big raise to work for them and Melian ends up signing with the Yankees. Yankees get punished? Heck no.

The Latin American baseball market is rife with the things the Braves are being accused of doing (and have probably done). Families get all kinds of goodies. Somehow, fathers become part-time scouts (as in Melian's case). These players don't have agents, but they do have handlers and those guys' palms get greased. Like someone pointed out earlier in the thread, it's not unlike college football recruiting with the big difference being many of these kids from Latin America are coming from dirt-poor circumstances and this is their only way out.
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Posts like this are why I love this board.
 
striker42 said:
If that was the case I expect it would be a GM in name only. If we bring in Moore, we're bringing him in to be the guy. He'll be the one making trades and signing FAs. Some of the more mundane duties might be shoved off on a GM but Moore would be the guy acting in the traditional GM role.
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However things shake out, I'd completely expect this to be the case. It's also likely to be a "me or y'all" thing if they want DMGM back IMO - he might be willing to take the job, but not if JS and Hart want to meddle in his decisions. He left because they didn't trust him enough to turn things over to him, and after proving they should have been willing to, he certainly shouldn't need a babysitter now. If the rumblings about him still having the sweet spot in his heart for "home" are true, they're likely only true if JS and Hart are willing to stay out of his way - as their job titles suggest they should. He (as well as a long list of people in the game) certainly respect them enough to bounce things off them and use them as resources and advisors, but they shouldn't hire him if they don't respect him enough to let him make the final decisions.
 
clvclv said:
However things shake out, I'd completely expect this to be the case. It's also likely to be a "me or y'all" thing if they want DMGM back IMO - he might be willing to take the job, but not if JS and Hart want to meddle in his decisions. He left because they didn't trust him enough to turn things over to him, and after proving they should have been willing to, he certainly shouldn't need a babysitter now. If the rumblings about him still having the sweet spot in his heart for "home" are true, they're likely only true if JS and Hart are willing to stay out of his way - as their job titles suggest they should. He (as well as a long list of people in the game) certainly respect them enough to bounce things off them and use them as resources and advisors, but they shouldn't hire him if they don't respect him enough to let him make the final decisions.
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I really don't see why there would be an issue with him being the guy. If Hart wanted that job then it would be his. He's made it clear he doesn't want that position. My understanding is that the plan was to have Hart slowly turn over duties to Coppy and take more and more of a back seat as Coppy gained experience.

With Moore, you have a veteran GM. He doesn't need Hart looking over his shoulder. I don't see why there would be any issue turning the reins fully over to Moore with Hart sliding into a JS-like role of semi-retirement.
 
Dayton left because he was a Royals fan growing up near that area. That was his boyhood dream to be part of the Royals. He was offered their top front office position and took it. Not because he didn’t trust JS to turn things over to him.
 
Tapate50 said:
Why in the hell are all these guys that are “retired” still making decisions for the Braves?
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Exactly. And who's to say they are even competent to continue making these big decisions? Most people by the age of Hart and JS have been retired for many years. I don't see why these two remain in these high level positions.
 
NYCBrave said:
Exactly. And who's to say they are even competent to continue making these big decisions? Most people by the age of Hart and JS have been retired for many years. I don't see why these two remain in these high level positions.
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It's not uncommon for well respected, high ranking elder statesmen in an organization to turn over a lot of their daily duties and stay on in a reduced capacity. They'll be involved in the big decisions and deal with big picture stuff but also spend a lot of time on the golf course.
 
striker42 said:
If that was the case I expect it would be a GM in name only. If we bring in Moore, we're bringing him in to be the guy. He'll be the one making trades and signing FAs. Some of the more mundane duties might be shoved off on a GM but Moore would be the guy acting in the traditional GM role.
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That is the structure of most front offices now though.
 
striker42 said:
It wouldn't shock me to see most of last year's international signings declared FA's, to see Maitan declared a FA, to be banned from signing international players for two years, and to lose the number 8 pick. That would serve as a deterrent for other teams looking to skirt the rules.
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Jezzyus - not saying you're wrong but that would be brutal.
 
thethe said:
That is the structure of most front offices now though.
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It's just an issue of titles then. Whether he's called President of Baseball Operations or General Manager, Moore would be the one making trades, signing players, cutting players, etc. Call him what you will, if we go get Moore then he'll be calling the shots.
 
UNCBlue012 said:
Yay...

Nightengale says we’re bringing Snit back for “stability.”
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Yeah, I'm not so interested in John Hart's fake projection of stability. We've danced this dance before.

The organization needs major turnover, from the top down. That includes the dugout. Snitker and all of his coaches need to go.

Can't believe they won't let the sparkling new GM hand-pick his own staff. What a joke.

This is going to be a long offseason.
 
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