Megathread: Braves lose Maitan, Bae and 10+ plus International Sanctions.

thewupk said:
I don't know if many thought Heyward would be the mid 800 OPS guy he was as a rookie going forward. But from 2012-2015 he posted a 781 OPS with a range of 109 OPS+ to 117. I think most people expected something in that area and not the 68 and 85 OPS+ he's had in the past two years.

Yes sometimes teams simply have bad luck. Like the run of quality starting pitches getting injury after injury for the Braves during the Wren era. I still believe that overall if you have the right process you will see success.
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I think the latest process has been fraught with miscues and the thought behind the overall framework is faulty, but I don't think the problem with the Wren era was simply bad luck. Wren (and by extension those above him) ran the team as if it still had Turner's pocketbook. We had graduated a bunch of very good players from the minor league system, but we had no ready replacements for the departure of impending free agents and no money to hit the top drawer free agent market.

I don't want to make this about Wren v. Coppolella, but I hope as we move to the next phase, we find someone who will concentrate on constructing a long-term sustainable strategy that recognizes both the strengths and constraints under which the team operates. I don't think we've had that since the early 2000s. Even the latter years of the Schuerholz era were characterized by reflexive hiccups that refused to deal with the realities of the Braves' situation.
 
Former best friends John Schuerholz and John Hart, who run the Atlanta Braves now, are said to be at odds over things related to the team and currently having a tough time getting along, so there could be more upheaval in the organization.

People with ties to the team say they believe Schuerholz would love to bring in Dayton Moore, and have Moore, a longtime Braves executive before he went to Kansas City, groom Schuerholz’s son Jonathan, who runs the farm system for the Braves.
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https://www.fanragsports.com/heyman-braves-front-office-of-schuerholz-and-hart-at-odds/
 
Super said:
this simply isn't true. i heavily questioned how his offense would hold up but didn't really buy into his defense going downhill (at least not anytime soon). i thought he had a lot of holes in his game and his power was dropping every year. did i think he'd be quite this bad? well, no. but i absolutely thought he wouldn't be worth the investment he would take, especially for our payroll limitations. it was a move for a team like the cubs to make, not the braves. the FO made the right decision at the time, and it's the right decision today.

i still love watching him play defense. but at the plate, he's a mess, and he showed signs of that frequently throughout.
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I recall a lot of this sentiment around here at the time, it was a huge topic of contention.This isn't just hindsight.

Either way, the inability or unwillingness to sign him and the resulting trade have been of huge benefit to this team.
 
As Ken Rosenthal of The Athletic reported, 15 teams are being investigated for signing prospects before they were eligible to be signed, so there presumably must have been something else.

I find this mildly interesting from the same article.
 
Tapate50 said:
UGHHHH More Shuerholz? I can't deal with the ones we got now.

JS needs to GIT. So does Hart. GIT !
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I am so over Big Suspenders. If he's intent on promoting the future prospects of his kid within the organization, he simply has to go. I usually don't mind the old guard sticking around as long as they sit on the front porch and whittle whilst recounting the old days, but when it gets to this level of meddling, something has to be done. I don't see Liberty or McQuirk as having the backbone to put a stop to this crap. I have nothing against Little Suspenders, but I'm sure there are more qualified young guys in baseball who the Braves should consider before bowing to Big Suspenders' sentiments. I don't have that much of a problem with Dayton Moore except that he has an attachment to Big Suspenders. We need to cut the cord. I don't care if its a stat guy or a traditionalist. We need fresh sets of eyes.
 
I'm pretty disillusioned with McGuirk, JS, and Hart at this point, so it's hard to figure out who to root for to influence this GM search.
 
dak said:
I'm pretty disillusioned with McGuirk, JS, and Hart at this point, so it's hard to figure out who to root for to influence this GM search.
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More input from Liberty would help. They could get rid of McGuirk which would be a step forward to breaking up the JS influence. Moore would put Hart in a place of less influence.
 
I half think the JS vs JH narrative is bull**** and Shanks is just wishcasting a scenario where Moore comes in because it helps HIM.
 
salmagundy said:
More input from Liberty would help. They could get rid of McGuirk which would be a step forward to breaking up the JS influence. Moore would put Hart in a place of less influence.
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I suspect the Liberty / McGuirk marriage is pretty solid and he is safe. Hart has the most culpability for the current FO mess we're in by virtue of his role, but he also probably has a better chance of picking a forward-thinking GM than JS.
 
dak said:
https://www.fanragsports.com/heyman-braves-front-office-of-schuerholz-and-hart-at-odds/
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The Braves have not been this big of a mess in my lifetime. The more this deteriorates the more I want to see Hart out and Dayton Moore be given the reins to the organization. Some may question whether Moore would be a great GM citing the Royal's current farm system but everything I've heard says the guy is excellent at running an organization.

I think DOB said on Olney's podcast yesterday that Moore's employees love working for him. After Wren who was seen as a micromanager by his subordinates and not terribly pleasant and Coppy/Hart's apparently tyrannical regime, we need a guy like Moore to come in and smooth things out.
 
thewupk said:
Heyward had a 117 OPS+ in 2015. Also ignored his 117 OPS+ in 2012.

And all of that ignores that OPS is a flawed stat compared to WOBA.
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Betcha if you've got time to go search the ones that were on that list +3 more OPS+ points you don't find $184 million men either.

If they haven't been created in the last 5 minutes, they're ALL flawed stats, no?

I play with numbers all day too - can likely make your house worth a million bucks if I work at it.

:tchop:
 
striker42 said:
The Braves have not been this big of a mess in my lifetime. The more this deteriorates the more I want to see Hart out and Dayton Moore be given the reins to the organization. Some may question whether Moore would be a great GM citing the Royal's current farm system but everything I've heard says the guy is excellent at running an organization.

I think DOB said on Olney's podcast yesterday that Moore's employees love working for him. After Wren who was seen as a micromanager by his subordinates and not terribly pleasant and Coppy/Hart's apparently tyrannical regime, we need a guy like Moore to come in and smooth things out.
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Time to just get him in here to break things up regardless. Deal with the JS and JS Jr. bridge when you get to it - that's the least of the concerns at this point.
 
clvclv said:
Time to just get him in here to break things up regardless. Deal with the JS and JS Jr. bridge when you get to it - that's the least of the concerns at this point.
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Yeah. I want a new person with full authority in this organization. I don't trust Hart, JS has one foot out the door, we need a new leader.

As for who takes over next, that's not even something to consider at this point.
 
dak said:
I'm pretty disillusioned with McGuirk, JS, and Hart at this point, so it's hard to figure out who to root for to influence this GM search.
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I'm rooting for chaos. The more f**ked up things become, the better the chance Liberty decides to act and cans the whole lot of them. Or better yet, they decide this isn't something they want to fool with, and sell the team to someone who would prioritize winning ballgames over earnings per share.
 
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