Megathread: Braves lose Maitan, Bae and 10+ plus International Sanctions.

I think this may be where come confusion came in. I don't see how Mcguirk ever stated we'd have a top 10 payroll team at all, much less in 2017. I never listen to politician talk, so I never assumed that. Payroll increased approximately 25% depending on which year you want to focus on and how you want to account for salaries dumped. Is a 25% a major bump? I guess it could be categorized as so, but that's misleading since I believe we planned on flipping assets like Colon and Garcia in July anyways in a "mirage season" I think we'll be similar to last year in that 120M range and another jump the following year if we're competitive. I look at this like a loan. We have a 30 year 420M mortgage. We have to pay some heavy interest upfront, but we should see steady increases in payroll as the "interest" is paid off and increased revenues continue to come in.

ABC: If revenues increase like expected, will payroll increase?

TM: Absolutely. We are not going to be the Los Angeles Dodgers, which have become unsustainable. The Dodgers' operating theory is so unsustainable that they themselves have said, “We’re going to reduce $100 million of payroll.” It’s crazy what they did and they now know it. New owners do this. Almost every time baseball has a new owner they sort of go haywire and then they come back down. We’ve been in the middle of the pack as far as payroll — that’s not where we want to be going forward. We’re going to be much better.

ABC: Can we expect to see a top 10 payroll team?

TM: I think that’s where we want to be. I think we would expect ourselves to be. The proof is in the pudding. We have to have all of this coalesce and work. Our confidence level is so high that it’s as close to being in our plans as we can get it right now as far as our operating plan and how everything we are doing.

ABC: When can we expect to see the Braves in the top 10 in terms of payroll?

TM: I won’t give you a timetable, but you will start seeing major jumps 1/1/17.
 
11/15:

ABC: When can we expect to see the Braves in the top 10 in terms of payroll?

TM: I won’t give you a timetable, but you will start seeing major jumps 1/1/17.

ABC is Atlanta Business Chronicle. TM is, of course, Coach McGuirk.
 
I think the risk is attendance goes back to 2 million in 2018. Budgeting typically is based on a forecast of attendance (and other revenues). It always was likely that attendance would fall back in 2018. Which to me meant that payroll in 2018 would likely not increase. At best it would hold steady. Now there are hints of a small decline in payroll in 2018. Not too surprising whether or not 2017 attendance fulfilled expectations.
 
nsacpi said:
I think the risk is attendance goes back to 2 million in 2018. Budgeting typically is based on a forecast of attendance (and other revenues). It always was likely that attendance would fall back in 2018. Which to me meant that payroll in 2018 would likely not increase. At best it would hold steady. Now there are hints of a small decline in payroll in 2018. Not too surprising whether or not 2017 attendance fulfilled expectations.
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That's a problem for sure. The newness of the park has worn off and so far the only thing to discuss is scandal. Right now the focus should be on keeping attendance at least in the 2.5M range. I do think there is a different vibe when people discuss going to a game now. It's not the dreaded MARTA ride and mile walk, or having to stay sober because the drive is such a pain the arse. You can uber now if you want to pregame at the Yard House or the Terrapin bar and traffic is not nearly as bad if you're driving...although parking still sucks and there's talk of installing some shuttle services like in Six Flags. That should be a no brainer. The access roads from 575 should be finished by next year as well, making it less of a pain.
 
Chico said:
That's a problem for sure. The newness of the park has worn off and so far the only thing to discuss is scandal. Right now the focus should be on keeping attendance at least in the 2.5M range. I do think there is a different vibe when people discuss going to a game now. It's not the dreaded MARTA ride and mile walk, or having to stay sober because the drive is such a pain the arse. You can uber now if you want to pregame at the Yard House or the Terrapin bar and traffic is not nearly as bad if you're driving...although parking still sucks and there's talk of installing some shuttle services like in Six Flags. That should be a no brainer. The access roads from 575 should be finished by next year as well, making it less of a pain.
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I'm always a tad perplexed as to why the prospect of parking free up north and taking a train ride and a shuttle to the park was considered to be so horrific, particularly considering that the new joint doesn't substantially improve the situation.
 
Julio3000 said:
11/15:

ABC: When can we expect to see the Braves in the top 10 in terms of payroll?

TM: I won’t give you a timetable, but you will start seeing major jumps 1/1/17.

ABC is Atlanta Business Chronicle. TM is, of course, Coach McGuirk.
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And we did see a jump to $120M. Then we saw them be as cheap as possible in the Garcia trade and dumping SRod due to missing revenue projections. Now we will see a reduced or flat payroll in 2018 as a result of the low revenue.

The Braves aren't going to be anywhere near a Top 10 payroll anytime soon. I'm guessing anything less than 3M in attendance next year spells the end of the current regime. Hopefully they don't sink the future in an attempt to generate revenue this year.

If revenue was tracking as expected I would expect the 2018 payroll to be closer to $140M, and $160M by 2019. I would expect real chatter about a Stanton/Inciarte/Acuna OF. I would expect the GM to aim higher than 1-2 BP arms this offseason. I would expect them to be in on a SP like Lynn.

None of that is happening because the Braves don't have any money. As a result, FO members are starting to suffer consequences and covering it up by scapegoating Coppy. You guys bought the "we will be competitive" facade the last few years, and now you're buying the "Coppy was the worst GM ever" facade today.
 
Enscheff said:
And we did see a jump to $120M. Then we saw them be as cheap as possible in the Garcia trade and dumping SRod due to missing revenue projections. Now we will see a reduced or flat payroll in 2018 as a result of the low revenue.

Alot of the blame for missing projections has to be put on Coppy / Hart / JS. The bean counters and lawyers did their job. They were able to get the infrastructure built to help build up the franchise. The baseball ops people are the ones that couldn't put an interesting team on the field. I've said it before. I really like what the team has done with the farm system but the management of the MLB roster the last few years has been horrible. Did Coppy / Hart really think they had a contender with two 40 something pitchers and 3 of 4 corner positions manned by at best case one war players? Coppy / Hart were the ones selling the three year rebuild. I dont know which one of the johns was most responsible but It sucks for Coppy since he was the lower of the three.

I think a big problem is there have been three people running the baseball operations. If I were McGuick I would want one person to be in charge so I had one point of responsibility. The three johns gives opportunity for finger pointing.
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I'm sorry but this case is a both worlds case and not one that can be put on one group or another. Coppy's failure to act in a professional manner was going to burn the Braves just as badly as the old guard being extremely stringent was going to. From the way it sounded he burned a lot of bridges with connections around MLB.

His case is a heck of a lot worse than Frank Wren. If Jeff Wren is even half true it basically sounds like John Schuerholz forbade him from trying to take a step back multiple times and then fired him because he hated that Frank was doing pretty well as it "made his legacy look bad". Not because he was hated around MLB.

Coppy deserved to be fired. The issues go further back then him and John Schuerholz needs to ride off into the sunset. If you have multiple people manipulating in an office, you don't have a clear head guy.
 
GeorgiaGirl said:
I'm sorry but this case is a both worlds case and not one that can be put on one group or another. Coppy's failure to act in a professional manner was going to burn the Braves just as badly as the old guard being extremely stringent was going to. From the way it sounded he burned a lot of bridges with connections around MLB.

His case is a heck of a lot worse than Frank Wren. If Jeff Wren is even half true it basically sounds like John Schuerholz forbade him from trying to take a step back multiple times and then fired him because he hated that Frank was doing pretty well as it "made his legacy look bad". Not because he was hated around MLB.

Coppy deserved to be fired. The issues go further back then him and John Schuerholz needs to ride off into the sunset. If you have multiple people manipulating in an office, you don't have a clear head guy.
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That Frank Wren stuff is fun reading but I wouldn't put to much stock in it. Most of it sounds like sour grapes. I work in an industry were managers move around alot so Ive seen my share of bitterness and hate. Frank Wren takes being bitter to another level.
 
GeorgiaGirl said:
I'm sorry but this case is a both worlds case and not one that can be put on one group or another. Coppy's failure to act in a professional manner was going to burn the Braves just as badly as the old guard being extremely stringent was going to. From the way it sounded he burned a lot of bridges with connections around MLB.

His case is a heck of a lot worse than Frank Wren. If Jeff Wren is even half true it basically sounds like John Schuerholz forbade him from trying to take a step back multiple times and then fired him because he hated that Frank was doing pretty well as it "made his legacy look bad". Not because he was hated around MLB.

Coppy deserved to be fired. The issues go further back then him and John Schuerholz needs to ride off into the sunset. If you have multiple people manipulating in an office, you don't have a clear head guy.
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DM won't come to Atlanta unless Hart is gone and he is given full control. We saw several moves that appeared to follow an inconsistent plan during the rebuild. It was literally like 2-3 guys were all trying to execute different plans.

Hart claims the FO "won't miss a beat". He also claims the GM search will take quite some time. This means he is happy to be back in full control of the Braves and isn't looking to give up that control anytime soon. Look for the Braves to hire a yes-man who is happy being Hart's glorified personal assistant.

I don't think it's debatable anymore how dysfunctional the Braves FO was/is. We should all be grateful the organization is in as good of shape as it is...it could have been much worse.
 
Enscheff said:
DM won't come to Atlanta unless Hart is gone and he is given full control. We saw several moves that appeared to follow an inconsistent plan during the rebuild. It was literally like 2-3 guys were all trying to execute different plans.

Hart claims the FO "won't miss a beat". He also claims the GM search will take quite some time. This means he is happy to be back in full control of the Braves and isn't looking to give up that control anytime soon. Look for the Braves to hire a yes-man who is happy being Hart's glorified personal assistant.

I don't think it's debatable anymore how dysfunctional the Braves FO was/is. We should all be grateful the organization is in as good of shape as it is...it could have been much worse.
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It feels like the semi retired guy (Hart) is holding the entire franchise hostage. If McGurick is really "the guy" and a good CEO he needs to tell the two remaining Johns that they go. Both Johns seem more interested in their self than the long term well being of the franchise.

The Braves are in a great position with the farm system, new stadium, bad contracts expiring, and in several years a new tv deal. McGurick should be able to attract a great leader.
 
JxnMissFan said:
That Frank Wren stuff is fun reading but I wouldn't put to much stock in it. Most of it sounds like sour grapes. I work in an industry were managers move around alot so Ive seen my share of bitterness and hate. Frank Wren takes being bitter to another level.
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Huh? When has Frank Wren even said a word about the Braves? It's the other way around, if anything.
 
dak said:
The drip, drip, drip continues.

[TW]917847571908956162[/TW]
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LOL how does a GM lie about an opt out clause? It's either in the contract offer, or it isn't.

Expect to see this stuff until all Braves fans are convinced Coppy was the worst GM alive and solely responsible for the last 3 crappy seasons. They slammed Wren on the way out, now they will slam Coppy on the way out. Barves Way.

The FO needs that to be the case so they aren't blamed for revenues badly missing projections.
 
CyYoung31 said:
Huh? When has Frank Wren even said a word about the Braves? It's the other way around, if anything.
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That's right. He loves the Braves. He is just bitter at everyone in charge.

Why does he have such an attachment to the company that wronged his family?

I can't believe Frank let's him run his mouth. He maybe right but airing private things in public makes you look bitter.
 
JxnMissFan said:
That's right. He loves the Braves. He is just bitter at everyone in charge.

Why does he have such an attachment to the company that wronged his family?

I can't believe Frank let's him run his mouth. He maybe right but airing private things in public makes you look bitter.
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You're asking why Frank Wren let's Frank Wren run his mouth? But, Frank Wren doesn't run his mouth.

Your post doesn't make any sense.
 
Frank Wren was fired three years ago. After that decision, we were inundated with stories about what a horrible person Wren was, what an awful GM, how he had caused the franchise to lose the path of the beam. Hart came in and gave a ton of interviews in which he described the Braves as a blasted hellscape thanks to Wren’s incompetence and received fulsome media praise for his candor.

Over the last three years, Frank didn’t say word one about any of that. A couple months ago, when Rosenthal started reporting on dysfunction within the organization, Keith Law, without evidence, claimed that the Wrens were feeding Rosenthal the stories, because obviously there was nothing there.

At that point, Jeff Wren started going crazy on Twitter and that continued once this scandal broke and vindicated Rosenthal.

So, in other words, the Wren family was silent for nearly three years while everyone associated with the Braves threw dirt on Frank’s grave, and Jeff spoke up once a prominent ESPN journalist accused his family of planting negative stories about the front office.

Jeff is clearly more than a bit obsessive, and I won’t defend his tweeting, but it’s not the Wrens that come off looking like the bad guys here. Hell, at least Jeff is willing to put his name to his comments, which is more than you can say for the anonymous sources who blasted his brother three years ago.
 
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