Megathread: Braves lose Maitan, Bae and 10+ plus International Sanctions.

mfree80 said:
Not the kids, obviously, but the "Handlers" who are masters at gaming the system. Teams have to play by their rules or be cut off from access to the top players. The only solution would be for every team to refuse to play their game... but one team breaking ranks is enough to keep the system alive. I'll bet some teams are going to claim that is exactly what happened and the Braves were the team that broke ranks.
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I've always wondered why MLB players union doesn't push harder to protect these kids.
 
12:12
desertfox9139: Braves penalties come off as a bit harsh?
12:12
Dave Cameron: I don’t think it’s a coincidence that MLB dropped the hammer this hard right as Ohtani is getting posted.
12:12
Dave Cameron: They saw a chance to send a message to other teams to not try anything with him, and they took it.
 
12:51

John S: seems like the Coppy-era Braves kind of did a **** job of identifying the correct prospects to target in the IFA market.

12:51

Dave Cameron: That’s the underrated story here.

12:51

Dave Cameron: Go read Eric’s report on these guys.

12:51

Dave Cameron: They aren’t flattering.
 
12:54
NL Central: Nothing like practically death penalty-ing your franchise for the sake of sucky prospects
12:54
Dave Cameron: People are really overreacting to the impact this will have on ATL.
12:54
Dave Cameron: Lots of teams get nothing from the international markets and still build winning teams.
12:54
Dave Cameron: It’s not ideal to lose years of access to a prospect market, but this isn’t the only way to acquire players.
 
12:59

NL Central: They’ll have to be spot on with all their other transactions then because when i survey the landscape of great players there is a huge # who are international.

1:01

Dave Cameron: Top 10 position players in WAR this year.

Judge (draft)

Altuve (signed for $15K, ATL can still sign these types)

Rendon (draft)

Stanton (draft)

Trout (draft)

Bryant (draft)

Votto (draft)

Ramirez (signed for $50K, ditto Altuve)

Blackmon (draft)

Pham (draft)
 
Enscheff said:
12:51

John S: seems like the Coppy-era Braves kind of did a **** job of identifying the correct prospects to target in the IFA market.

12:51

Dave Cameron: That’s the underrated story here.

12:51

Dave Cameron: Go read Eric’s report on these guys.

12:51

Dave Cameron: They aren’t flattering.
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And a sharp contrast to Albies and Acuna, who cost a LOT less.
 
Enscheff said:
12:12
desertfox9139: Braves penalties come off as a bit harsh?
12:12
Dave Cameron: I don’t think it’s a coincidence that MLB dropped the hammer this hard right as Ohtani is getting posted.
12:12
Dave Cameron: They saw a chance to send a message to other teams to not try anything with him, and they took it.
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Interesting. It still sucks that our punishment wasn't based on our actions but instead was because MLB wanted to send a message. If Manfred has to resort to such tactics then he's an incredibly weak leader who should do us all a favor and resign.
 
nsacpi said:
And a sharp contrast to Albies and Acuna, who cost a LOT less.
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I'm not going to jump on the "these guys sucked anyways" bandwagon, but stuff like this helps to ease the pain a bit.

And honestly, the Braves haven't made a good call on a single expensive international prospect since...ever.
 
I mean, damn, read EL's final sentence on Maitan:

"He’s still just 17 and it’s far too early to give up on Maitan as a prospect, but unless you view him using his amateur reports as context, you might not even think he is one."

The reports on everyone else are just as bad.
 
Enscheff said:
I'm not going to jump on the "these guys sucked anyways" bandwagon, but stuff like this helps to ease the pain a bit.

And honestly, the Braves haven't made a good call on a single expensive international prospect since...ever.
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I think it is just very difficult at that age to control for the differences in physical maturation you see in players. Even if we did not have the penalties, I would favor targeting more international prospects who can be acquired with bonuses under 500K than going for the ones at the top of each class.
 
nsacpi said:
I think it is just very difficult at that age to control for the differences in physical maturation you see in players. Even if we did not have the penalties, I would favor targeting more international prospects who can be acquired with bonuses under 500K than going for the ones at the top of each class.
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That's the word on Abrahan...he was just more physically mature than the other kids. How a professional scout can't see that is truly mind boggling.

The Braves may be better off signing 50 kids to cheap deals anyways if recent results are any indication of their scouting prowess. If the kid can physically throw a baseball, give him $10k.

Imagine how many excellent soccer athletes that type of system would draw in poor areas of the world.
 
Enscheff said:
Good call, back in 2007. It's been a decade since the Braves have hit on a top international prospect signing.
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And we've had a stream
of decent major league players that we didn't have to break the bank for: Prado, Randall Delgado, Avilan, Peraza, Camargo.

Not to mention some outstanding talent that we acquired at great prices: Andruw, Albies, Acuna.

That's a very good return for not spending a lot of money.
 
nsacpi said:
And we've had a stream
of decent major league players that we didn't have to break the bank for: Prado, Randall Delgado, Avilan, Peraza, Camargo.

Not to mention some outstanding talent that we acquired at great prices: Andruw, Albies, Acuna.

That's a very good return for not spending a lot of money.
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They'll need to really emphasize that sort of scouting / those sorts of signings over the next year, because within the 2019-20 period they'll be really hard pressed to sign anyone of note.
 
I was reading an article today that went through a list of various instances of teams cheating in the international market. How they generally just fired the scouts involved and MLB was satisfied. No loss of prospects, no sanctions on signing classes. The Red Sox got their wrist slapped last year in what was the strongest ever move by MLB in this arena.

Then there's Atlanta. The Braves got hit with a punishment orders of magnitude worse than anything ever leveled at any MLB club.

Imagine you get a speeding ticket and go to traffic court and the judge sentences you to death. That's about what we're talking about here. Everyone else caught speeding before you got a fine. But the judge got fed up and wanted to send a message and so he sends you to the gallows.

Manfred got annoyed that teams kept ignoring MLB's rules. When the Braves stuff came to light he got mad and pitched a fit.
 
If I were Boston, I would go mad illegal to get Otani. Like double the pay illegal (maybe stash him in a hotel in Boston for a year) and call MLB’s bluff. Doubt they would have to do any more than pay fees as long as it didn’t create a weird cascade effect. Obviously you get a different standard, so you could probably keep him.
 
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nsacpi said:
And we've had a stream
of decent major league players that we didn't have to break the bank for: Prado, Randall Delgado, Avilan, Peraza, Camargo.

Not to mention some outstanding talent that we acquired at great prices: Andruw, Albies, Acuna.

That's a very good return for not spending a lot of money.
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*amn good thing our amazingly analytically-inclined number crunchers found those guys from their cubicles at 755 Hank Aaron Drive - could you imagine where the franchise would be if their internet had gone out?!?!?
 
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