50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
I guess I'm just having visions of Jason Shiell.
Minor Shoulder & Urethra Issues
- Thread starter nsacpi
- Start date
I guess I'm just having visions of Jason Shiell.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Well that step forward is not as easy as it sounds. There is a reason why there are only 10-20 pitchers considered aces.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
I realize it's not easy, but Teheran's season last year is being downplayed too much, IMO. He started rocky, but was extremely consistent after that. I don't think we need him to be a top 10 pitcher, but if he can throw 210 and Minor goes over 200 as well, we're in great shape.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
For sure. The stretch that he put together, considering his age and experience, was remarkable. I'm surprised that there isn't more general optimism about his prospects this year and beyond.
Tapate50
Well-known member
I can get on board with this, but the whole being able to repeat as league leaders in ERA thing sounds hard to do.
With pitchers that don't walk batters and some great defenders behind you I think its possible for sure. This is why I didn't understand the urgency on some fans for Wren to improve the team. Aside from the obvious second base there was nowhere to get improvements that were reasonable.
AUTiger7222
Called Up to the Major Leagues
I cannot agree more! That's why I don't understand all this "concern" over the Braves starting pitching.
Because blind optimism can result in serious disappointment (see: the last 15 years).
Because blind optimism can result in serious disappointment (see: the last 15 years).
How is it blind in this situation?
AUTiger7222
Called Up to the Major Leagues
You beat me to it.
Our pitching is good, but not great. Do you disagree?
Those of us that are 'concerned' are not saying our pitching is bad, but rather that it can be improved (even menially).
How would you evaluate our starting pitching last year? Sorry to answer your question with another question.
I do feel our pitching is really good borderline great. It will be great if the improvements that I believe will happen actually happen.
AUTiger7222
Called Up to the Major Leagues
My concerns with the pitching staff lie with the bullpen. Relief pitchers tend to be very fickle year to year and we're counting huge on two guys, Avilan and Carpenter, that came completely out of nowhere to do what they did last year in leading up to Kimbrel. Venters is coming back off his 2nd Tommy John surgery. I've never been a fan of Varvaro and don't think he's a particularly good pitcher. Other guys that are options like Butcher, Obispo and Vasquez have never pitched in the majors. So that's where my concern is with the pitching staff. Not with the starting pitching. I think our overall depth and the quality of the 1-5 that we can throw out there outweights not having a Clayton Kershaw or Adam Wainwright at the top of the rotation. That's why it's not a corcern for me. The other concern I have is with the bench. The Braves had a lot of unexpected contributors off the bench last year and I don't know if you can count on guys like Pena and Schafer to repeat the years they had and I'm not a huge fan of the Ryan Doumit move. I understand why Wren got him but I don't know if Doumit can be successful as a pinch-hitter since he's always been a regular/semi-regular player in his career and is coming off a pretty poor year with the bat.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
I have always subscribed to the notion that while "you can't bet against young pitching, neither can you bet on it." I think those of us who are concerned about the starting pitching aren't totally buying into the projections. It wasn't too many years ago that a lot of Braves' fans thought Tommy Hanson was going to be a top-tier starter. He looked good and then fell off the map. Injuries played into that. I'm not saying what happened to Hanson will happen to our current staff, but I always take this part of a team with a grain of salt. I just don't buy the list with Northcraft and Martin on it as possible solutions to someone going down. I'm 50/50 on Hale.
50, I'm just betting the recent Braves track record more than anything. Hanson was an implosion waiting to happen. Even when he was dominating in the majors most of us were concerned about his delivery. JJ was a knee issue but that was more unexpected for sure. Other than those two there haven't been many crash and burns. I feel that at this point that Medlen/Minor should be a given. They are established #2's IMO. Teheran is a potential ACE but I can understand some hesitancy with him because of his age/experience.
I feel our SP last year was solid, but not spectacular, and that the weakness of the rotation was fully exposed in the NLDS. I do agree with you in that I believe the pitching core has been 'upgraded' incrementally thanks to experience, seasoning, etc. The addition of Floyd has the potential to be worthwhile, but, aside from that, the Braves didn't add any sort of bonafide TOR arm (which I will concede, may not be essential) or flesh out the organization with any other intriguing arms. So, basically, I see this year's staff as a single notch above last year's, but nothing more -- again, not a bad thing, but worthy of some scrutiny/concern (especially when considering the moves the competition made).
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Another part of the issue is whether our pitching or pitching depth is best improved at this point by picking up another Freddy Garcia or Paul Maholm type pitcher. It varies on a case by case basis depending on what you already have each year. Chris Capuano did not make sense for the Red Sox a few weeks ago. But when Dempster announced he wasn't playing this year, it made sense for them to make the move.
I think you want to calibrate your quality of pitching by how much they are likely to actually pitch. Based on prior year's experience you have an idea of how much your #6 is likely to pitch, how much your #7 guy is likely to pitch, etc.
Of course the most dramatic way to improve your rotation is by bringing in a #1. That improves the whole rotation by moving everyone else down a rung. But as with any acquisition, you need to weigh the improvement against the costs. We've talked about this quite a bit with respect to David Price and a few others. They would be nice to have, but not cost efficient. For a team like the Braves, homegrown pitching is the way to go. It exploits a strong comparative advantage that our farm system has demonstrated over the years.
I think you want to calibrate your quality of pitching by how much they are likely to actually pitch. Based on prior year's experience you have an idea of how much your #6 is likely to pitch, how much your #7 guy is likely to pitch, etc.
Of course the most dramatic way to improve your rotation is by bringing in a #1. That improves the whole rotation by moving everyone else down a rung. But as with any acquisition, you need to weigh the improvement against the costs. We've talked about this quite a bit with respect to David Price and a few others. They would be nice to have, but not cost efficient. For a team like the Braves, homegrown pitching is the way to go. It exploits a strong comparative advantage that our farm system has demonstrated over the years.