MINORS FINAL FRIDAY 4/21 ... Rome wins in 18 innings!

JxnMissFan said:
I was at the game tonight (1st of the season) and I agree the lineup is bad. Overall the team appears to be young and very raw. I did like the Cajun catcher (savicque) he may turn into a decent player. The outfielders seemed ok but young.

Soroka disappointed me a little. I don't think he has one dominate pitch. He will be a pitch to contact guy that will require good defense behind him. I do like how he keeps the ball low. I think the only pitch he threw above the belt was the one hit batter. I was sitting down the 3rd base line so I didn't get a feel for movement on the ball. I would pump the brakes on him a little bit. He seemed to get tired tonight causing a lot of balls in the dirt. It's going to take a while for him to build the stamina to pitch in the majors.

Mader is going to be good. I could see him pitching a long time in the MLB.
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If Soroka really is sitting 90-91 with his FB, then he is succeeding with mediocre stuff against low quality hitters due to superior command vs his level.

I hope we have witnessed this exact phenomenon enough times to see where this is probably going: getting shelled at the MLB level.

FB velo sitting at 90-91 simply isn't going to allow him to be anything more than a backend guy. Hooefully there is more in the tank from him.

Now bring on the homers with their chats of "he just knows how to pitch", and "he just hits his spots", and "he just knows how to change speeds". They were wrong every other time they've spouted that nonsense, but that certainly won't stop them from doing it again.
 
Enscheff said:
If Soroka really is sitting 90-91 with his FB, then he is succeeding with mediocre stuff against low quality hitters due to superior command vs his level.

I hope we have witnessed this exact phenomenon enough times to see where this is probably going: getting shelled at the MLB level.

FB velo sitting at 90-91 simply isn't going to allow him to be anything more than a backend guy. Hooefully there is more in the tank from him.

Now bring on the homers with their chats of "he just knows how to pitch", and "he just hits his spots", and "he just knows how to change speeds". They were wrong every other time they've spouted that nonsense, but that certainly won't stop them from doing it again.
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He's 19 and doing it at AA. No, we haven't seen this a bunch of times before.
 
Enscheff said:
So you think he will succeed at the MLB level with a 90-91 FB? Or do you think he needs to add more velocity, like I said?
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I think he has more velocity.

And I think his ability to succeed in the majors at that velocity depends on his command and secondary stuff. You absolutely can succeed in the majors throwing 90-91.
 
Enscheff said:
There it is!
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Did I say he just knows how to pitch? Or he can just hit his spots?

Command and secondary stuff are real things that pitchers have. The better they are, the less that pitcher will rely on pure velocity. And there have been pitchers who have had plenty of success at the major league level without great velocity due to...guess what?....command and secondary stuff.

Heck, Bartolo can still get people out, and he has basically negative velocity and no secondary stuff. Just command and movement.
 
Enscheff said:
So you think he will succeed at the MLB level with a 90-91 FB? Or do you think he needs to add more velocity, like I said?
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Sinker style pitchers succeed all the time with 91ish fastballs. Julio Teheran has succeeded with with a 91 fastball his entire career. Obviously they have to keep the walks down and have a decent GB% to be successful, but there tons of examples over the past 15-20 years. You are just pulling crap out of your ass at this point to be negative.
 
If Soroka truly is a 90-91 guy, it certainly gives him less leeway when he gets to the majors to be successful, especially if you also see degradation in the things he's consistently done well (very few walks, very few HRs) beyond what you'd expect when moving up the ladder.

So it bears watching. However, can't overreact on a report from a single night. For example, quick web search found this report from Scouting the Sally last year which suggests, consistent with other reports out there, that his fastball may have a few more MPH in it than it evidently did last night:

Soroka’s fastball was 92-95 last night, mostly 93-94 with nice downward movement. He mixed in a few at 93 with cutting action that stayed on one plane but would run away from right handers. He held his velo throughout the start for the most part, throwing 90-92 touching 93 in the 5th and 6th. The 1-2 MPH drop for an 18 year old is not bad, you know he’s going to continue to get stronger. He pitched in on righties a lot with the fastball, busted some bats, others hit if off of there thumbs and a lot of awkward swings. He commanded the pitch very well down and in on righties. When he missed, he missed off the plate away, which he did quite a bit looking for the outer 3rd. He kept the ball down very well last night. 55 pitch for me, future 60 if he gains command to the outer 3rd.

http://notesfromthesally.com/2016/05/13/scouting-mike-soroka-rhp-rome/
 
devilsbballfan said:
If Soroka truly is a 90-91 guy, it certainly gives him less leeway when he gets to the majors to be successful, especially if you also see degradation in the things he's consistently done well (very few walks, very few HRs) beyond what you'd expect when moving up the ladder.
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It depends on what range you are talking about really, if your FB is sitting just around or above 90 it's tough to be successful. Drew Smyly for example, has a FB that has sat just over 90 for his career, and has struggled with the HR ball and consistency due to that low velocity.

But guys like Bumgarner, Grienke, Lester, Quintana, Cueto are all in the mid 91s to mid 92s on their average fastballs and have been studs, it's perfectly doable as long as you have the control, movement, and secondary stuff to make it happen. And Soroka has excellent control along with all the scouting reports I've looked at also saying he has good downward movement on his fastball. His lack of HRs given up in the minors also agree with those reports. As long as his FB can sit in the 91 and above range he can easily succeed. And most the reports I've seen have Soroka as a 92ish FB guy that can run it up to 95ish on occasion. That's easily enough velocity to succeed.
 
auyushu said:
It depends on what range you are talking about really, if your FB is sitting just around or above 90 it's tough to be successful. Drew Smyly for example, has a FB that has sat just over 90 for his career, and has struggled with the HR ball and consistency due to that low velocity.

But guys like Bumgarner, Grienke, Lester, Quintana, Cueto are all in the mid 91s to mid 92s on their average fastballs and have been studs, it's perfectly doable as long as you have the control, movement, and secondary stuff to make it happen. And Soroka has excellent control along with all the scouting reports I've looked at also saying he has good downward movement on his fastball. His lack of HRs given up in the minors also agree with those reports. As long as his FB can sit in the 91 and above range he can easily succeed. And most the reports I've seen have Soroka as a 92ish FB guy that can run it up to 95ish on occasion. That's easily enough velocity to succeed.
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LOL!!1!!!!11! Know how I know you lack the intellect to keep up with me in a manly battle of wits while tossing cornhole bags?
 
Enscheff said:
If Soroka really is sitting 90-91 with his FB, then he is succeeding with mediocre stuff against low quality hitters due to superior command vs his level.

I hope we have witnessed this exact phenomenon enough times to see where this is probably going: getting shelled at the MLB level.

FB velo sitting at 90-91 simply isn't going to allow him to be anything more than a backend guy. Hooefully there is more in the tank from him.

Now bring on the homers with their chats of "he just knows how to pitch", and "he just hits his spots", and "he just knows how to change speeds". They were wrong every other time they've spouted that nonsense, but that certainly won't stop them from doing it again.
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Kyle Hendrick's average velocity on his fastball is less than 90 mph. We will all have to wait on Soroka. Big kid who is only 19 so there may be a couple of more mphs in there. He's probably not a guy who is going to blow people away, but that doesn't mean he can't be an effective major league pitcher.
 
auyushu said:
It depends on what range you are talking about really, if your FB is sitting just around or above 90 it's tough to be successful. Drew Smyly for example, has a FB that has sat just over 90 for his career, and has struggled with the HR ball and consistency due to that low velocity.

But guys like Bumgarner, Grienke, Lester, Quintana, Cueto are all in the mid 91s to mid 92s on their average fastballs and have been studs, it's perfectly doable as long as you have the control, movement, and secondary stuff to make it happen. And Soroka has excellent control along with all the scouting reports I've looked at also saying he has good downward movement on his fastball. His lack of HRs given up in the minors also agree with those reports. As long as his FB can sit in the 91 and above range he can easily succeed. And most the reports I've seen have Soroka as a 92ish FB guy that can run it up to 95ish on occasion. That's easily enough velocity to succeed.
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Maybe hitters are used to higher velocities these days and its tougher to get fast balls by them, but there have been a lot of aces who sat in the 93 mph range.

I don't know how much Soroka's FB moves or anything about his style, but that's a relatively small jump and like you I think I've seen reports of him sitting in the 92-93 range before.

But its possible folks might be a little too in love with him. We'll see. He'd doing pretty well so far in AA, which is where there often is separation.
 
I am mildly surprised no one pointed out Maddux and Glavine. I guess people have finally learned that those two are anomalies and that it's asinine to compare any prospects to them.
 
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