MINORS FINAL THURSDAY 5/4 ... Allard reigns supreme

Forever Fredi said:
I gift the forum an optimist and realist/pessimist sub-forum and nobody uses it except nsacpi to debate himself. Sad!
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I think it's telling you grouped the realists and pessimists together.

The derpist/optimist group doesn't mind I'm sure. They likely see realists who rely on facts to be the devil.
 
thewupk said:
I wish. I hate to be that guy but the rule does state the runner has to beat the the throw. The original call wasn't going to be overturned.
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I agree not enough to overturn...but if the replay guy gets to make the call de novo it is safe
 
thewupk said:
I wish. I hate to be that guy but the rule does state the runner has to beat the the throw. The original call wasn't going to be overturned.
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Actually, not true. The rule book states the runner or base has to be tagged before the player reaches first. So the throw has to beat the runner, which is why the 'tie goes to the runner' interpretation has always been there...because in those instances, the throw did not beat the runner, therefore the runner is safe.

Inciarte was clearly safe.
 
smootness said:
Actually, not true. The rule book states the runner or base has to be tagged before the player reaches first. So the throw has to beat the runner, which is why the 'tie goes to the runner' interpretation has always been there...because in those instances, the throw did not beat the runner, therefore the runner is safe.

Inciarte was clearly safe.
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It's up to how you interpret the rules.

Rule 7.01 A runner acquires the right to an unoccupied base when he touches it before he is out. He is then entitled to it until he is put out, or forced to vacate it for another runner legally entitled to that base.

Rule 7.08 (e) Any runner is out when he or the next base is tagged before he touches the next base….
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They both contradict each other. In situations like this the original call will never be overturned.
 
thewupk said:
It's up to how you interpret the rules.

They both contradict each other. In situations like this the original call will never be overturned.
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Technically they don't contradict each other, they just leave a gray area when the ball and runner both get there at the same time.

But those apply to outs at any base. In regard to a batter running to 1B specifically, Rule 5.09(a)(10) says: A batter is out when, after a third strike or after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base.'

That's the only rule specifically discussing a batter and running to first base, so that has to be the rule for those situations. So if the throw doesn't clearly beat the runner, he should be ruled safe. Period.
 
smootness said:
Technically they don't contradict each other, they just leave a gray area when the ball and runner both get there at the same time.

But those apply to outs at any base. In regard to a batter running to 1B specifically, Rule 5.09(a)(10) says: A batter is out when, after a third strike or after he hits a fair ball, he or first base is tagged before he touches first base.'

That's the only rule specifically discussing a batter and running to first base, so that has to be the rule for those situations. So if the throw doesn't clearly beat the runner, he should be ruled safe. Period.
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First is a base. And a batter becomes a runner after he hits a fair ball. The rules I stated do apply. And I don't think a runner and the ball ever arrive at the time. We just see it that way because we can only process so much with our eyes. It's called both ways because the umpire either determines whether the ball reaches first or the batter.
 
thewupk said:
First is a base. And a batter becomes a runner after he hits a fair ball. The rules I stated do apply. And I don't think a runner and the ball ever arrive at the time. We just see it that way because we can only process so much with our eyes. It's called both ways because the umpire either determines whether the ball reaches first or the batter.
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correct...the replay indicates Inciarte go there first
 
thewupk said:
First is a base. And a batter becomes a runner after he hits a fair ball. The rules I stated do apply. And I don't think a runner and the ball ever arrive at the time. We just see it that way because we can only process so much with our eyes. It's called both ways because the umpire either determines whether the ball reaches first or the batter.
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Theoretically that's fine, but if we can't process enough with our eyes, an ump can't, either. There are obviously plays in which the ball and runner get there at essentially the same time.

The rules you quoted apply, but 5.09 clarifies that for a batter running to first after hitting a fair ball, the throw has to beat him there. 7.01 and 7.08 don't state any differently, so that rule is how safe/out is determined at 1B.

And honestly, even 7.01 and 7.08, when taken together, say the same thing. 7.01 states that a runner has the right to a base if he touches it before he 'is out,' not before the ball gets there. Well, when is he out? 7.08 clarifies it and says a runner is out when he or the next base is tagged before he touches the base. Therefore, if he or the base is not tagged before he touches it, then he has a right to the base. That is consistently how an out is determined at a base across the rule book.
 
When I was a kid I played a baseball video game where the players were robots and fought to change complete destruction over close plays. Awesome game, I think it was called Base Wars.
 
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