MINORS THREAD FINAL4/27 ... Walkoff HR for Franco

sturg33 said:
You seem to watch a lot... based on what you've seen, how would you rank the young pitchers this season... say top 5?
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Watch or listen. Yes. Really hard to rank. Gohard was not in my top five but the three starts I listened to he was great. I would say he is there now. Newk and touki are out. Anderson, Soroka and allard are my top 3. Even bad they look good. I haven't seen much of allard though
Soroka
Allard
Anderson
Gohard
Fried.

Sims has been great but like many I need more from him.
Fried scares me, but I haven't seen Weigel at all to really know other than stats. So fried sneaks in.

Believe it or not. Even being a posi brave, I try to stay level with these guys. They have huge hurdles to jump just to be major leaguers. Then they still have more to go once they make it. Just look at Folty or even Stras. Guys make it and typically struggle. So I know what most say is true. Just I tend to stay on my sunny side of the fence over the negative. Makes being a fan so much better. Imo.
 
Southcack77 said:
It took Epstein five years to rebuild the Cubs. He had a nearly unlimited budget.

The circumstances are very different.

If you want to talk Astros, they were bad for a bit, then completely awful for another three years, and then bad, and since they have one playoff appearance to show for it. I'm not sure I'd call that an unqualified success, but if you like.
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I'd hardly call the Cubs budget "unlimited"... high yes, but not absurd.

Using your timeline, in year 3 of their rebuild (2013)... the Cubs payroll was $107M. This is year 3 for the Braves, and our payroll is $123M
 
TheBravos said:
The thing about minors, is they have soooo much more inconsistent defense and umps. I see how many errors there are in most if these games. Not easy for pitchers.
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This kills me too. And the bull pens are terrible. Most of the time your MLB relievers don't come up relievers. The fire frogs defense is just horrible. They have talent. It is just like they get excited and screw up.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Watch or listen. Yes. Really hard to rank. Gohard was not in my top five but the three starts I listened to he was great. I would say he is there now. Newk and touki are out. Anderson, Soroka and allard are my top 3. Even bad they look good. I haven't seen much of allard though
Soroka
Allard
Anderson
Gohard
Fried.

Sims has been great but like many I need more from him.
Fried scares me, but I haven't seen Weigel at all to really know other than stats. So fried sneaks in.

Believe it or not. Even being a posi brave, I try to stay level with these guys. They have huge hurdles to jump just to be major leaguers. Then they still have more to go once they make it. Just look at Folty or even Stras. Guys make it and typically struggle. So I know what most say is true. Just I tend to stay on my sunny side of the fence over the negative. Makes being a fan so much better. Imo.
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I don't find your posts obnoxious at all. I like to hear your thoughts on what you see - that's more helpful than a stat line (except K/BB numbers - which is the biggest indicator I use to predict success).

Make sure you find some time for a Weigel start
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Watch or listen. Yes. Really hard to rank. Gohard was not in my top five but the three starts I listened to he was great. I would say he is there now. Newk and touki are out. Anderson, Soroka and allard are my top 3. Even bad they look good. I haven't seen much of allard though

Soroka

Allard

Anderson

Gohard

Fried.

Sims has been great but like many I need more from him.

Fried scares me, but I haven't seen Weigel at all to really know other than stats. So fried sneaks in.

Believe it or not. Even being a posi brave, I try to stay level with these guys. They have huge hurdles to jump just to be major leaguers. Then they still have more to go once they make it. Just look at Folty or even Stras. Guys make it and typically struggle. So I know what most say is true. Just I tend to stay on my sunny side of the fence over the negative. Makes being a fan so much better. Imo.
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Matt, opinion only but it is a mistake to Discount Touki and Newk. They may be outside the top 5 barely. It'll always be about harnessing stuff with them, but I think the light comes on for either. I saw the playoff games with Touki first hand and he was...video game type movement. Umpire was ducking too. I'm probably going off my firsthand view..but he can be so special. HOPE...lol.
 
Deester11 said:
Matt, opinion only but it is a mistake to Discount Touki and Newk. They may be outside the top 5 barely. It'll always be about harnessing stuff with them, but I think the light comes on for either. I saw the playoff games with Touki first hand and he was...video game type movement. Umpire was ducking too. I'm probably going off my firsthand view..but he can be so special. HOPE...lol.
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Pitchers with great stuff are not that uncommon.
 
We have a lot of talented arms. Where they all end up, nobody knows. Past history is informative, but we have no idea. I'll just let it play out and have hope for all of them. It's fun to watch regardless.
 
Deester11 said:
Matt, opinion only but it is a mistake to Discount Touki and Newk. They may be outside the top 5 barely. It'll always be about harnessing stuff with them, but I think the light comes on for either. I saw the playoff games with Touki first hand and he was...video game type movement. Umpire was ducking too. I'm probably going off my firsthand view..but he can be so special. HOPE...lol.
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lol.. believe me... I am not discounting them. Touki is probably one of my favorite pitchers.. but he is not in my top 5.. he just doesn't control a game like the top 5 can.. I said this yesterday (I think) Touki is unhittable 75% of the time and bonehead the other 25%.. he literally can go 3-0 on a guy and then three straight curves to K him.. then hit the next guy, wild pitch and then a single to score him.. then strike out the next 5 guys. Newk is also one that I 'hope' on.. The thing with Newk is he pitches so easy that he sometimes looks like he isn't trying. That frustrates me..it looks like he just doesn't care or tries to compete. I doubt that is the case..
 
sturg33 said:
Pitchers with great stuff are not that uncommon.
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That nails Newk to a tee..

however, Touki is not a pitcher with just great stuff.. I listened to two games with away announcers and they put several wows in their commentary. He is someone I would pay to go see. I wish he was in Rome so there would be some video to watch.. Florida state league needs to get on this!!
 
sturg33 said:
I'd hardly call the Cubs budget "unlimited"... high yes, but not absurd.

Using your timeline, in year 3 of their rebuild (2013)... the Cubs payroll was $107M. This is year 3 for the Braves, and our payroll is $123M
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That's fair. sportrac has the Braves only actually paying 112 million. There has been some inflation since 2013 and I don't think the international bonuses are reflected but its an observation.

the Cubs payroll was 188 million when they actually won. Let's see if the Braves can turn any of these short term deals or pitching prospects into all star hitters. Not sure that there is a Drew Cashner for Rizzo deal to be made. Swanson was sort of like that, but I'd much rather have the power hitter myself.

I give Epstein the most credit for acquiring Rizzo and Arrieta. I might have said that already. Epstein is clearly pretty top notch.

Bryant was simply a matter of taking the best hitter in the draft when he was available and we'll never know what the Braves would do in that situation unless perhaps the bottom falls out of this season and the Braves pick first in 2018.
 
My modest proposal is that the starters who don't cut it in the rotation be allowed to learn how to be set up men and closers.
 
sturg33 said:
Pitchers with great stuff are not that uncommon.
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Who said they were? I see these players. I don't get paid to scout but I've seen arms like you wouldn't believe. That being said, I've seen Touki 6 times. He's got better stuff than most. He has to put it together but that's what they are in the minors to do.
 
Signs of the Apocalypse? According to the box score, Florida pitcher Carlos Salazar threw 8 pitches in his one inning of work for Florida and they were all strikes! For anyone who has followed Salazar and his control problems, this little snapshot is worth mentioning. If Salazar finds his control, he could really be something. High risk pick when Wren and company drafted him, but one of my favorite picks from that era. Guy supposedly has electric stuff when it finds the strike zone.
 
Pitchers that can throw hard aren't uncommon. Pitchers with multiple plus pitches are much rarer. That's why a guy like Newcomb is still very valuable. If he fails he's probably still a dominant reliever and if he hones his control a little he's a frontline starter. Without a ton of polishing on his control he still projects as another Gio Gonzalez and that has a lot of value.

There's a difference between a brain dead hurler who hits 97 on the gun but with no quality secondary pitches and no idea where it's going and a guy like Newcomb.
 
striker42 said:
Pitchers that can throw hard aren't uncommon. Pitchers with multiple plus pitches are much rarer. That's why a guy like Newcomb is still very valuable. If he fails he's probably still a dominant reliever and if he hones his control a little he's a frontline starter. Without a ton of polishing on his control he still projects as another Gio Gonzalez and that has a lot of value.

There's a difference between a brain dead hurler who hits 97 on the gun but with no quality secondary pitches and no idea where it's going and a guy like Newcomb.
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There is a reason they put grades on tools and certainly there aren't that many guys with "plus plus" anything.

A lot of guys can throw hard sure.
 
chipchildress said:
Weigel with 28 Ks and 9 BBs in 26 IP
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Weigel is 22, which is not an unusual age for AA. He is having an excellent season.

Then we have Soroka at age 19 putting up these numbers:

21 strikeouts and 3 walks in 21 innings.

If Weigel's numbers are "ridiculous" what is the right adjective for Soroka?
 
nsacpi said:
Weigel is 22, which is not an unusual age for AA. He is having an excellent season.

Then we have Soroka at age 19 putting up these numbers:

21 strikeouts and 3 walks in 21 innings.

If Weigel's numbers are "ridiculous" what is the right adjective for Soroka?
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images
 
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