Mississippi and the Confederate Flag

[Julio3000]

No, I don't. At all really.

I'm not as familiar with the situation in Mississippi as I am with the one here in SC, but after having read up a little on the reasons/history behind why the flag was put up locally I'm comfortable not identifying the flag as any sort of totem of racist resistance. I do, however, accept that it is offensive symbol to some African Americans and have supported its removal, although I stand by the belief that it should have been a democratically backed decision.

I'm still not sure what your point was. My original comment was just an agreement with the idea that if black population wanted the flag down in Miss. then it would most likely be accurately reflected in a vote. The idea that the white population in the state would overwhelming oppose downing the flag is a little befuddling to me. But I'm looking at the issue contemporarily, not reaching back half a century to historically illustrate racial divides/subversion.

Maybe you can illuminate that for me a little bit.

 

[Hawk]

Maybe you can illuminate that for me a little bit.

Former Gov. Fritz Hollings remembers that in the early 1960s the Statehouse’s leading promoter of flying the Confederate flag was an Aiken County legislator who sometimes liked to wear his rebel uniform on the floor of the House.

The lawmaker, John May, was known as “Mr. Confederate.”

No one thought racism was behind the idea, Hollings said, contending hoisting the flag above the Statehouse was on account of the Civil War’s 1961 to 1965 centennial being recognized across the South and elsewhere.

“They thought a jackass was showing off,” Hollings also said of May’s over-the-top enthusiasm.

[...]

Hollings said he remembers that the flag went up to mark the 100th anniversary of the war, with various lawmakers and committees looking at how best to mark the anniversary, including where it started at Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor.

“Racism had nothing to do with the Confederate battle flag in my day,” said Hollings, 93, of Isle of Palms.

The flag went up on the dome and in the House and Senate chambers. Because there was not any legislative language or a mechanism to bring it down, the banners stayed. Some say they were kept in place to snub the federal government’s effort to advance desegregation and civil rights.

---

I know you know Fritz's political legacy.

 

[Julio3000]

Former Gov. Fritz Hollings remembers that in the early 1960s the Statehouse’s leading promoter of flying the Confederate flag was an Aiken County legislator who sometimes liked to wear his rebel uniform on the floor of the House.

The lawmaker, John May, was known as “Mr. Confederate.”

No one thought racism was behind the idea, Hollings said, contending hoisting the flag above the Statehouse was on account of the Civil War’s 1961 to 1965 centennial being recognized across the South and elsewhere.

“They thought a jackass was showing off,” Hollings also said of May’s over-the-top enthusiasm.

[...]

Hollings said he remembers that the flag went up to mark the 100th anniversary of the war, with various lawmakers and committees looking at how best to mark the anniversary, including where it started at Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor.

“Racism had nothing to do with the Confederate battle flag in my day,” said Hollings, 93, of Isle of Palms.

The flag went up on the dome and in the House and Senate chambers. Because there was not any legislative language or a mechanism to bring it down, the banners stayed. Some say they were kept in place to snub the federal government’s effort to advance desegregation and civil rights.

---

I know you know Fritz's political legacy.

I do. And I also know that the flag was the banner of resistance to integration, so I find the timing and the longevity of it rather fishy.

 

[Julio3000]

it is offensive symbol to some African Americans

To some Americans, don't you think? And, to say "some" African Americans may be understating the case.

It's a symbol of a white supremacist entity and was—is—an emblem for those who don't accept the equality of African Americans. I appreciate Fritz Hollings's recollection, but I doubt he is the kind of person to make an inflammatory and divisive statement about his former colleagues.

So it was flown to celebrate the centennial of the Civil War . . . but not for any other reason? Gosh, I wonder why they didn't take it down upon the centennial of the end of the war. Any thoughts about that?

 

[Hawk]

And, to say "some" African Americans may be understating the case.

After the Charleston shootings, sure.

1994: Louis Harris poll has 68 percent of African-Americans not offended by the Confederate flag.
2011: Pew Research Center has that number at 55%.

Winthrop University conducted a poll in 2014 that had 27% of African-Americans in South Carolina supportive of the flag:

While the racial divide over the flag was expected, the poll’s findings about black attitudes toward the flag may surprise some. About one in four blacks said the flag should continue flying – roughly split between blacks who felt that way “strongly” and “somewhat.”

“Some people, who assume that black opinion is monolithic, will actually be surprised” by those findings, Huffmon said.

http://www.thestate.com/news/politi...s-columns-blogs/the-buzz/article13917458.html

So it was flown to celebrate the centennial of the Civil War . . . but not for any other reason? Gosh, I wonder why they didn't take it down upon the centennial of the end of the war. Any thoughts about that?

It'd just be supposition, much like your belief that it was flown strictly to spit in the face of Civil Rights. Many different potential answers, although I understand that your reading is the most nefarious of those.

Did the flag become a rallying cry for a vile supremacist element? Yes, but I don't see why that must denigrate original intent.

 

[Julio3000]

After the Charleston shootings, sure.

1994: Louis Harris poll has 68 percent of African-Americans not offended by the Confederate flag.
2011: Pew Research Center has that number at 55%.

Winthrop University conducted a poll in 2014 that had 27% of African-Americans in South Carolina supportive of the flag:

While the racial divide over the flag was expected, the poll’s findings about black attitudes toward the flag may surprise some. About one in four blacks said the flag should continue flying – roughly split between blacks who felt that way “strongly” and “somewhat.”

“Some people, who assume that black opinion is monolithic, will actually be surprised” by those findings, Huffmon said.

http://www.thestate.com/news/politi...s-columns-blogs/the-buzz/article13917458.html

It'd just be supposition, much like your belief that it was flown strictly to spit in the face of Civil Rights. Many different potential answers, although I understand that your reading is the most nefarious of those.

Did the flag become a rallying cry for a vile supremacist element? Yes, but I don't see why that must denigrate original intent.

Is there a monolithic element of original intent?

 

[Hawk]

Is there a monolithic element of original intent?

Of record, at least, yes.

 

[Runnin]

After the Charleston shootings, sure.

1994: Louis Harris poll has 68 percent of African-Americans not offended by the Confederate flag.
2011: Pew Research Center has that number at 55%.

I have major doubts those numbers accurately reflect the truest feelings of African-Americans on the flag. People just want to get through the day without making unnecessary waves - "No sir. I'm not offended. No sir." -- especially people who see themselves on the short end of the stick.

That said, awareness of the history of the flag and how they feel about it is changing in the Black community as well as the White.

 

[goldfly]

Mississippi has the largest black population % in the country.

yeah, a majority of people have never been oppressed by a minority of people

that has never happened.

sticking up for mississippi

 

[Hawk]

yeah, a majority of people have never been oppressed by a minority of people

that has never happened.

sticking up for mississippi

Whoa. Just a little racist.

 

[goldfly]

Whoa. Just a little racist.

Which part?

 

[Hawk]

Which part?

The part where I said that Mississippi had the largest percentage of African Americans in the country and you ridiculed me for 'sticking up' for them.

 

[goldfly]

The part where I said that Mississippi had the largest percentage of African Americans in the country and you ridiculed me for 'sticking up' for them.

Yes, sticking up for the state of Mississippi is funny

But nice attempt on spinning that the way you wanted there.

Sticking up for that racist ass state as if it isnt a ****hole that has a long history of racism that is continues to embrace would be funny if it was downright sad

 

[Hawk]

Yes, sticking up for the state of Mississippi is funny

But nice attempt on spinning that the way you wanted there.

Sticking up for that racist ass state as if it isnt a ****hole that has a long history of racism that is continues to embrace would be funny if it was downright sad

Where did I 'stick up' for the state of Mississippi?

I never said anything about Mississippi state, I talked about the considerable black population in the state, the same population which you seem to want to belittle and patronize.

To each his own.

 

[goldfly]

Where did I 'stick up' for the state of Mississippi?

I never said anything about Mississippi state, I talked about the black population in the state, the same population which you seem to want to belittle and patronize.

To each his own.

 

[Hawk]

 

[Dalyn]

 

[msstate7]

Yes, sticking up for the state of Mississippi is funny

But nice attempt on spinning that the way you wanted there.

Sticking up for that racist ass state as if it isnt a ****hole that has a long history of racism that is continues to embrace would be funny if it was downright sad

How long have you lived in Mississippi?

 

[goldfly]

How long have you lived in Mississippi?

let's just skip to where you try to make your point instead of the dumb game

 

[msstate7]

let's just skip to where you try to make your point instead of the dumb game

Just wondering if you actually know what you're talking about or just going off what huffington post tells you