MLB suspends Astros GM and Manager for a year, yuge fine and takes away draft picks.

jpx7 said:
lol wut

You still have to hit good pitches, even if you “know” the pitch-type. Chemically improving athleticism, along with injury avoidance, is way more problematic.
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I mean, are we really going to split hairs and argue subjectivity in which form of gaining an edge at the plate is more advantageous?

At least with steroids, you knew the playing field was fairly even.
 
CyYoung31 said:
I mean, are we really going to split hairs and argue subjectivity in which form of gaining an edge at the plate is more advantageous?

At least with steroids, you knew the playing field was fairly even.
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I’m pro-cheating, so, no. I have doubts if non-cheaters even love baseball.
 
jpx7 said:
lol wut

You still have to hit good pitches, even if you “know” the pitch-type. Chemically improving athleticism, along with injury avoidance, is way more problematic.
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What % of pitches thrown by MLB pitches are actually 'good'? I feel most guys would get rocked if they told the hitter what was coming.
 
thewupk said:
You mean the records that were set when the entire league was on greenies?
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Greenies didn't give anywhere near the advantage of steroids.

They enabled players with skills to be able to perform those skills when they were tired or hungover. A light hitting middle infielder with warning track power wasn't going to start hitting balls over the fence due to amphetamines. A pitcher throwing 88 mph wasn't going to start throwing 92-93 while on speed. Players definitely benefitted, but they had to have the skill set to get to the league and to perform in order to realize those benefits.

Think about all the fly balls we see every year that are caught at the warning track. Many of those turned into home runs because players were carrying more muscle than their bodies could've naturally produced. Higher exit velocities from stronger players turned some singles into doubles, ground ball outs into base hits, etc. Players who may not have made it to the big leagues on their natural abilities were able to do so while juiced.

The only real similarity between the two substances was the enhanced recovery times from injuries with steroids, versus the recovery from fatigue or hangovers with amphetamines.
 
DirkPiggler said:
Greenies didn't give anywhere near the advantage of steroids.

They enabled players with skills to be able to perform those skills when they were tired or hungover. A light hitting middle infielder with warning track power wasn't going to start hitting balls over the fence due to amphetamines. A pitcher throwing 88 mph wasn't going to start throwing 92-93 while on speed. Players definitely benefitted, but they had to have the skill set to get to the league and to perform in order to realize those benefits.

Think about all the fly balls we see every year that are caught at the warning track. Many of those turned into home runs because players were carrying more muscle than their bodies could've naturally produced. Higher exit velocities from stronger players turned some singles into doubles, ground ball outs into base hits, etc. Players who may not have made it to the big leagues on their natural abilities were able to do so while juiced.

The only real similarity between the two substances was the enhanced recovery times from injuries with steroids, versus the recovery from fatigue or hangovers with amphetamines.
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How many countless 'bums' get busted for steroids every year. It's not the wonder drug that some think it is.

People have been cheating in baseball since the game was invented. And honestly this is the first time I ever thought it crossed the line.
 
thewupk said:
And I'm just waiting on when the Astros pitchers are going to get busted. Trevor Bauer knows something is up.
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I've always viewed the Astros as a dirty organization, even before this latest scandal. I have nothing to back this up except my own intuition, but I've long suspected that they were at the forefront of bringing PEDs into the game. They always seemed to have these scrawny guys who had shown little if any power early in their careers who all of a sudden started hitting bombs in the Astrodome of all places.
 
DirkPiggler said:
I've always viewed the Astros as a dirty organization, even before this latest scandal. I have nothing to back this up except my own intuition, but I've long suspected that they were at the forefront of bringing PEDs into the game. They always seemed to have these scrawny guys who had shown little if any power early in their careers who all of a sudden started hitting bombs in the Astrodome of all places.
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Bagwell and Biggio don't fill out their shirts quite the way they did in the day. HoF cheats.

And let's not forget Caminiti.
 
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thewupk said:
How many countless 'bums' get busted for steroids every year. It's not the wonder drug that some think it is.

People have been cheating in baseball since the game was invented. And honestly this is the first time I ever thought it crossed the line.
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It's a little different now with the testing that is in place. Players can't go all out the way they used to in the 90s and early 2000s.

You still have to be able to put the bat on the ball. PEDs won't help you do that. But if you have the contact skill and the desire to work out enough to take advantage, they can definitely make the difference between a fringe player and a middle of the order slugger. Or in the case of Bonds, the difference between a HOF worthy all around player with around 400 HRs, and two HR records and a size 8 3/4 cap.
 
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thewupk said:
You mean the records that were set when the entire league was on greenies?
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Was gonna write a long post showing how wrong you are, but Dirk did it for me.

DirkPiggler said:
Greenies didn't give anywhere near the advantage of steroids.

They enabled players with skills to be able to perform those skills when they were tired or hungover. A light hitting middle infielder with warning track power wasn't going to start hitting balls over the fence due to amphetamines. A pitcher throwing 88 mph wasn't going to start throwing 92-93 while on speed. Players definitely benefitted, but they had to have the skill set to get to the league and to perform in order to realize those benefits.

Think about all the fly balls we see every year that are caught at the warning track. Many of those turned into home runs because players were carrying more muscle than their bodies could've naturally produced. Higher exit velocities from stronger players turned some singles into doubles, ground ball outs into base hits, etc. Players who may not have made it to the big leagues on their natural abilities were able to do so while juiced.

The only real similarity between the two substances was the enhanced recovery times from injuries with steroids, versus the recovery from fatigue or hangovers with amphetamines.
Click to expand...
 
thewupk said:
How many countless 'bums' get busted for steroids every year. It's not the wonder drug that some think it is.

People have been cheating in baseball since the game was invented. And honestly this is the first time I ever thought it crossed the line.
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And imagine how much worse they'd be without it.

Baseball's highest scoring offenses correlate with the steroid era and then saw a steep drop once the steroid era ended. That isn't some coincidence.

THIS, is the first time you think cheating crossed a line? Because the Stro's got caught doing what teams have been doing in some form since at least the 40's? I really don't think people truly understand just how rampant sign stealing is in the MLB and has been for decades.
 
Carp said:
And imagine how much worse they'd be without it.

Baseball's highest scoring offenses correlate with the steroid era and then saw a steep drop once the steroid era ended. That isn't some coincidence.

THIS, is the first time you think cheating crossed a line? Because the Stro's got caught doing what teams have been doing in some form since at least the 40's? I really don't think people truly understand just how rampant sign stealing is in the MLB and has been for decades.
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Previous attempts at sign stealing have nothing on what the Astros did.
 
thewupk said:
How many countless 'bums' get busted for steroids every year. It's not the wonder drug that some think it is.

People have been cheating in baseball since the game was invented. And honestly this is the first time I ever thought it crossed the line.
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Downplaying the impact of PEDs is an interesting tack.
 
A lot of normally low-key players and ex-players have really unloaded on the Astros. Aaron. Muk. Trout.
 
nsacpi said:
A lot of normally low-key players and ex-players have really unloaded on the Astros. Aaron. Muk. Trout.
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yeah. and surely they all know that teams still signs. what Houston was doing is different, and the response from players tells you that.
 
nsacpi said:
A lot of normally low-key players and ex-players have really unloaded on the Astros. Aaron. Muk. Trout.
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I wonder how Hank feels about the guy he replaced, Bobby Thompson, since it's documented he was undoubtedly involved in the NY Baseball Giants sign stealing scheme in the year of the famous "Shot Heard Round the World."
 
Remember that time MLB launched a full-blown investigation into steroid use before Congress overstepped their bounds and decided that it was their business?

Yeah, me neither.
 
Carp said:
I wonder how Hank feels about the guy he replaced, Bobby Thompson, since it's documented he was undoubtedly involved in the NY Baseball Giants sign stealing scheme in the year of the famous "Shot Heard Round the World."
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First it is Thomson. What the Giants did in 1951 is very similar to what the Astros did.
 
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