Moustakas

C

clvclv

<B>"What is a clvclv"</B>
While I (somewhat) agree with those who are a little uneasy about trading for him (without a window to extend him), count me as one who will be terribly disappointed if the Braves have a protected pick and Coppy and Company don't make a play for him this winter. He'd cost nothing but money and a potential draft pick to sign, and we're obviously not going to cough up another $32,000,000 for veteran SPs next season.

I just don't see an "answer" coming at 3B for at least 2 years - IF before Maitan.

He would do nothing but stretch the lineup - and allow you to see what you can get for Adams (if anything) while keeping the balance in the middle of the lineup (Freeman/Kemp/Moustakas/Flowers/Markakis).

The only thing better would be to suddenly discover Adams can handle RF and someone's suddenly interested in Markakis.
 
clvclv said:
While I (somewhat) agree with those who are a little uneasy about trading for him (without a window to extend him),
Click to expand...

Wait, you only "somewhat" agree with those who don't want us to trade for a guy who is on an expiring contract in a lost year?

The Braves would be insane to trade for him.

Also - I don't really have much interest in signing him either. Don't believe in hm that much.

I'd rather the Braves try to pry away someone like McMahon from Colorado.
 
sturg33 said:
Wait, you only "somewhat" agree with those who don't want us to trade for a guy who is on an expiring contract in a lost year?

The Braves would be insane to trade for him.

Also - I don't really have much interest in signing him either. Don't believe in hm that much.

I'd rather the Braves try to pry away someone like McMahon from Colorado.
Click to expand...

You continue to read what you want as opposed to what was posted.

I clearly stated "without a window to extend him". If you trade for him, it's only to keep others from bidding for him - and it's only if there aren't multiple bidders for him assuming DMGM makes him available.

We're at the point where trading for prospects is probably in the rearview mirror - unless it's our vets on expiring deals.
 
You're going to have to sign him for too much money and give him a lot more than 2 years. So no thanks.

And we won't stop trading for prospects in the right situation. I don't think McMahon is available at this point, but a guy like that would make perfect sense for the Braves to go after.
 
clvclv said:
While I (somewhat) agree with those who are a little uneasy about trading for him (without a window to extend him), count me as one who will be terribly disappointed if the Braves have a protected pick and Coppy and Company don't make a play for him this winter. He'd cost nothing but money and a potential draft pick to sign, and we're obviously not going to cough up another $32,000,000 for veteran SPs next season.

I just don't see an "answer" coming at 3B for at least 2 years - IF before Maitan.

He would do nothing but stretch the lineup - and allow you to see what you can get for Adams (if anything) while keeping the balance in the middle of the lineup (Freeman/Kemp/Moustakas/Flowers/Markakis).

The only thing better would be to suddenly discover Adams can handle RF and someone's suddenly interested in Markakis.
Click to expand...

Like everything else it's about cost and length of the deal. Maybe Frazier makes more sense if this guy gets a 5 year deal.

Personally I think we have money to spend and we should offer a higher annual value to get the length down and/or get some team options.

I don't think Rio/SRod is going to cut it.

I honestly haven't seen a single KC game so I'm not sure what we expect to be left in the tank here either.
 
Russ2dollas said:
Like everything else it's about cost and length of the deal. Maybe Frazier makes more sense if this guy gets a 5 year deal.

Personally I think we have money to spend and we should offer a higher annual value to get the length down and/or get some team options.

I don't think Rio/SRod is going to cut it.

I honestly haven't seen a single KC game so I'm not sure what we expect to be left in the tank here either.
Click to expand...

I think Frazier makes a lot of sense for us next season. He should be much cheaper than Moose. He'll probably be traded and not cost a pick to sign. He's not what he once was, but he's a good clubhouse guy who can provide some power and play a servicable 3B
 
He's intersting. He breakout was cut short by injury but his power gains look real. He will only be 29 at the start of 2018 and is a good defensive player.

The other good thing is the heavy builders probably won't be in on him. Oriole's, RSox, Blue Jays, Nats, and Dodgers are all set at 3b. Yankees still have Headley, and I think they'd prioritize pitching over upgrading 3b. Indians are set, Giants are fincancially overcommitted. A bunch of teams will be leery of spending big this offseason in anticipation of the next one, where two superior 3b will be available.
 
There are no more "protected picks".

Maybe learn the rules before you start threads about topics about which you are ignorant?
 
Oklahomabrave said:
He's intersting. He breakout was cut short by injury but his power gains look real. He will only be 29 at the start of 2018 and is a good defensive player.

The other good thing is the heavy builders probably won't be in on him. Oriole's, RSox, Blue Jays, Nats, and Dodgers are all set at 3b. Yankees still have Headley, and I think they'd prioritize pitching over upgrading 3b. Indians are set, Giants are fincancially overcommitted. A bunch of teams will be leery of spending big this offseason in anticipation of the next one, where two superior 3b will be available.
Click to expand...

I'm absolutely under no illusion that we'll even be close in the bidding, but damn I want to see Manny Machado in a Braves uniform.
 
Signing Moustakas for more than 3 years would scare me. His career splits are bad. Any decline and he will be unplayable against LHP.
 
smootness said:
You're going to have to sign him for too much money and give him a lot more than 2 years. So no thanks.

And we won't stop trading for prospects in the right situation. I don't think McMahon is available at this point, but a guy like that would make perfect sense for the Braves to go after.
Click to expand...

Name someone you eventually don't have to sign for more than two years - assuming you want to be competitive at some point, that is. I'd much rather spend money on bats than on arms that you fully expect will blow out at some point during a 4+ year contract personally.

For all the young bats the Cubs have, they had to spend big on Lester, spent big on Heyward, and are about to have to spend big again or start gutting their system for pitching (since they definitely don't have any coming).

We'd all love to trade for someone cheaper, but who is that, and what are you willing to trade for him?

One name that popped to mind for me over the weekend was Ryon Healy - a pretty good example that the projection systems are pretty *hitty. Going into this season...

PECOTA: (460 PAs) .259/.290/.404, 0.2 WAR, 12 HRs
Steamer: (561 PAs) .274/.312/.432, 0.8 WAR, 17 HRs
ZiPS: (615 PAs) .267/.305/.466, 1.6 WAR, 21 HRs

So far (275 PAs) he's slashing .284/.313/.585 with 17 bombs already, but he's so bad defensively that I'm not sure the brass would take him even with that bat. Until the NL adopts the DH, we're already stuck with one guy without anywhere to play when Freeman returns.

Jeimer Candelario has cooled somewhat, Oakland's not trading Matt Chapman, Boston's not trading Devers, Toronto's not trading Vlad Jr., and the Yankees will likely promote Torres to replace Headley rather than spend big on Moustakas.

I'm just REALLY not a Frazier fan, and even if others are, he's going to be looking for more than a 2 year deal too.
 
clvclv said:
Name someone you eventually don't have to sign for more than two years - assuming you want to be competitive at some point, that is. I'd much rather spend money on bats than on arms that you fully expect will blow out at some point during a 4+ year contract personally.
Click to expand...

I have no problem with the Braves spending to address third-base, and I'm actually not too worried about 4-5-year contract for the right player—especially given I don't think the Braves will really be competitive next season, either.

I just don't think Moustakas is that guy. His on-base ability scares me, as does his age (29, when—again—I don't think the Braves will be really competitive until he's in his age-31 season); meanwhile, his power-burst this season will probably mean he gets an extra couple million on his AAV.
 
jpx7 said:
I have no problem with the Braves spending to address third-base, and I'm actually not too worried about 4-5-year contract for the right player—especially given I don't think the Braves will really be competitive next season, either.

I just down think Moustakas is that guy. His on-base ability scares me, as does his age (29, when—again—I don't think the Braves will be really competitive until he's in his age-31 season); meanwhile, his power-burst this season will probably mean he gets an extra couple million on his AAV.
Click to expand...

I'm definitely not arguing that he doesn't have his warts - simply that he's probably the best available guy this winter if he's not traded to someone that extends him - and that even with those warts he'd still be a huge upgrade for us.
 
clvclv said:
Name someone you eventually don't have to sign for more than two years - assuming you want to be competitive at some point, that is. I'd much rather spend money on bats than on arms that you fully expect will blow out at some point during a 4+ year contract personally.

For all the young bats the Cubs have, they had to spend big on Lester, spent big on Heyward, and are about to have to spend big again or start gutting their system for pitching (since they definitely don't have any coming).

We'd all love to trade for someone cheaper, but who is that, and what are you willing to trade for him?

One name that popped to mind for me over the weekend was Ryon Healy - a pretty good example that the projection systems are pretty *hitty. Going into this season...

PECOTA: (460 PAs) .259/.290/.404, 0.2 WAR, 12 HRs
Steamer: (561 PAs) .274/.312/.432, 0.8 WAR, 17 HRs
ZiPS: (615 PAs) .267/.305/.466, 1.6 WAR, 21 HRs

So far (275 PAs) he's slashing .284/.313/.585 with 17 bombs already, but he's so bad defensively that I'm not sure the brass would take him even with that bat. Until the NL adopts the DH, we're already stuck with one guy without anywhere to play when Freeman returns.

Jeimer Candelario has cooled somewhat, Oakland's not trading Matt Chapman, Boston's not trading Devers, Toronto's not trading Vlad Jr., and the Yankees will likely promote Torres to replace Headley rather than spend big on Moustakas.

I'm just REALLY not a Frazier fan, and even if others are, he's going to be looking for more than a 2 year deal too.
Click to expand...

Saw something on the Twitters (likely Braves related tweeter) regarding recent big dollar free agent starter performance and it was not pretty. You are really asking to eat it at some point, thought certainly guys had given their teams great seasons.

Moustakas seems like he may be pricey now and I wouldn't pay a premium for him.
 
I wouldn't do a trade in season but Moustakas and Frazier could both be options. Frazier will probably be an affordable option this offseason. We clearly have a need at 3B and an average major league starting 3B would be a huge upgrade. I'd like to say go after Machado or Donaldson the year after, but I think that they would command more money than we should have tied up in one player even if we have the room available. Machado would probably cost 250 million over about 8 years.
 
clvclv said:
I'm definitely not arguing that he doesn't have his warts - simply that he's probably the best available guy this winter if he's not traded to someone that extends him - and that even with those warts he'd still be a huge upgrade for us.
Click to expand...

I don't think we should be overspending in free agency on guys we don't love just because there's not a clearly better option available to us. I'd much rather go get somebody who might be passable in FA and wait on Austin Riley.
 
clvclv said:
I'm definitely not arguing that he doesn't have his warts - simply that he's probably the best available guy this winter if he's not traded to someone that extends him - and that even with those warts he'd still be a huge upgrade for us.
Click to expand...

You're probably not wrong regarding Moustakas being "the best available this winter", pending other developments; but "best available this winter" doesn't mean "worth the gamble" to me, given his obvious deficiencies—especially considering I don't anticipate the Braves really needing the upgrade until 2019, at the earliest. I think a better option is to scour the trade market for a younger, more cost-controllable option, whose late-twenties years will coincide with the next competitive window—even if it costs a couple good arms from the minors.
 
smootness said:
I don't think we should be overspending in free agency on guys we don't love just because there's not a clearly better option available to us. I'd much rather go get somebody who might be passable in FA and wait on Austin Riley.
Click to expand...

That's the point - who's passable???

After Moustakas and Frazier, your options are Ryan Flaherty, Trevor Plouffe, Danny Valencia, and Yunel Escobar (and you know the brass isn't going back down that road).
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top