NBA Thread
- Thread starter zitothebrave
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BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
Felton, Shump, MWP, Melo, Tyson with JR, Pablo, Udrih (Hopefully), Bargs, Amare, KMart, Hardaway off the bench
Also....thethe, please link it.
http://insider.espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/9517736/nba-offseason-grades-east
Did you think I was making it up?
Did you think I was making it up?
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
No, just wanted to see who wrote it as 509235982590843523 people work at ESPN.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
Where are you sourcing your statistics?
Not sure what you mean by "last year" or "2012," but in 2011–12 Bargnani posted 19.5/5.5 (pts/trb) with terrible defense, and in 2012–13 he was even worse, at 12.7/3.7 with even worse defense. His 2011–12 percentages make that season appear even worse, as he shot .432 overall and .296 from three; miraculously, he declined in further last season, falling to .399 from the floor general (though he did improve to a torrid .309 from beyond the three-point line!).
I don't really like PER, since it substantially overrates offensive contributions (which thus reflects more positively on a player like Bargnani), but while his PER was 17.9 in 2011–12, it was a mere 11.2 last year — and that 17.9 represented a career-high. Regardless, Bargnani has never had a PER of 18.04 and he's never dropped 20/7 (and certainly not last season).
He's cabbage.
He is also the last thing the Knicks needed which is anothe guy who either can't play defense or doesn't want to.
What do you expect out of Bargs this year?
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
Depends if he starts or not, also, could you please explain how he was a negative....the numbers don't make sense to me. As I said....I'm not very smart.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
So in the best year of his career, in a 31 game sample, he looked alright if you use a limited, team-dependent metric which overrates offensive contributions? Wow!
He's cabbage.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
Again: where are you sourcing your statistics?
According to basketball-reference.com, he posted the highest win-shares total of his career in 2009–10 at 4.2, then fell back to 2.5 in 2010–11 and 2.1 in 2011–12 before plummeting to 0.1 last season. There is no way that averages to 5.3 annually over 2009–12; it only totals 8.9.
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
If he was a negative, he wouldn't average a +5.3 win share.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
He didn't; see the post above.
I hate to drop a No True Scotsman on you, but it's hard for me to believe that any rational basketball observer thinks Andrea Bargnani is a good basketball player.
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
Hoopdata
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
Even if you use those numbers, it's still a PLUS....which does NOT compute with you saying "he's a complete negative" or however you phrased it.
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
I don't really have time for a lengthy post because I have to go drink a beer and watch a film, but: he had a high USG%, took a lot of shots, and thus scored a lot of points (even if inefficiently), so he was bound to accrue win-shares in the context of Toronto's teams. That doesn't make him a good player; as this list shows, you have to be really atrocious to total negative win-shares.
Personally, I believe that basketball statistics at the moment are less efficacious than those in baseball, but regardless you're cherry-picking from seasons several years previous to justify his supposed benefits and positives. Bargnani is trending downwards, is a horrible defender, a terribly inefficient shooter, an absolutely garbage rebounder for his size/position, and – perhaps worst of all – merely doubles-down on the Knicks' inefficiencies and deficiencies.
BRule
<B>BBQ Lead Hostess</B>
Never said he was great...but to say it's a bad trade, makes no sense. We traded 2 useless players and a late 20's 1st for a guy that prior to last year was coming off averaging 20 and 7 or 19 and 7, I forget what it was, for the two previous years. If he sucks, he's a huge expiring after this year. I fail to see how there's a downside to the trade. If OKC made a trade like this, all we would hear is how great Presti is.