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GovClintonTyree said:
Why not? Mid order bat at a position of need and a TOR starter, both with control, for a group of maybes?

I make that deal and don't look over my shoulder.
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Because in 2014 and 2015, Longoria wasn't a mid-order bat, he will be 31 next year and on the books until he's 37, and has been a good, not great, player the last 3 years.

And Archer is more potential than an actual TOR starter at this point, and pitchers are always risks. There's a decent chance Folty himself is as valuable as Archer before very long.

And we would be giving them a very good CF, a good closer, and a good young SP in that deal...plus maybe our best SP prospect and another pretty good piece. That is a really big haul for two guys that are pretty flawed at this point.

And because we're still not in a position to really go for it. Inciarte for Longoria helps you minimally because Mallex is a step down in CF, and Folty for Archer may not help you a ton, either. So you're likely still not really in a place to contend right now, Longoria will probably start tailing off more soon, and that is significant future value we'd be giving up.

All those reasons.
 
Call me crazy but if we are getting an Ace... I'd rather trade Teheran than Folty at this point. Folty could be a big deal very quickly and the rotation is ridiculous deep now.
 
zbhargrove said:
Call me crazy but if we are getting an Ace... I'd rather trade Teheran than Folty at this point. Folty could be a big deal very quickly and the rotation is ridiculous deep now.
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Folty could be, Teheran is. Not an ace in many eyes but I'd rather have JT with an ace.
 
zbhargrove said:
Call me crazy but if we are getting an Ace... I'd rather trade Teheran than Folty at this point. Folty could be a big deal very quickly and the rotation is ridiculous deep now.
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"Crazy".. but seriously.. I would prefer to keep them both and just re-evaluate next year. who knows who will be available, but I just like the thought of letting our system age a bit more. I think we will have some movers in our system that will help with trade value.
 
smootness said:
Because in 2014 and 2015, Longoria wasn't a mid-order bat, he will be 31 next year and on the books until he's 37, and has been a good, not great, player the last 3 years.

And Archer is more potential than an actual TOR starter at this point, and pitchers are always risks. There's a decent chance Folty himself is as valuable as Archer before very long.

And we would be giving them a very good CF, a good closer, and a good young SP in that deal...plus maybe our best SP prospect and another pretty good piece. That is a really big haul for two guys that are pretty flawed at this point.

And because we're still not in a position to really go for it. Inciarte for Longoria helps you minimally because Mallex is a step down in CF, and Folty for Archer may not help you a ton, either. So you're likely still not really in a place to contend right now, Longoria will probably start tailing off more soon, and that is significant future value we'd be giving up.

All those reasons.
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Somewhat more pessimistic than I am about those two, but certainly valid arguments.
 
I honestly dont understand what the braves are doing we have Teheran,Folty,Wisler,Blair,Garcia,Colon,Dickey and Collmenter and may looking for Sale plus all the other prospects. There not enough innings to develop the youngest players.
 
ixiXSolidXixi said:
I honestly dont understand what the braves are doing we have Teheran,Folty,Wisler,Blair,Garcia,Colon,Dickey and Collmenter and may looking for Sale plus all the other prospects. There not enough innings to develop the youngest players.
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Here's my best guess. They have decided that almost none of the guys who are in the upper minors are keepers (maybe Folty) and that a significant number of the guys in the lower minors look a lot better.

They are perhaps overly excited about the second half offense and think they're closer to contention than many forecasts think. They feel that if they can plug some pitching in for now it will keep them competitive until the lower minors guys are ready.

And they do think they're on the fringe of playoff contention, so they're trying to see if they can add a stud without cutting too deep. If they get one look for a deal for 3B and C, too, cause they'll be convinced they're close.
 
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zbhargrove said:
But Teheran has more value to trade and Folty has a higher ceiling. Plus you'd be replacing Teheran with a shut down ace
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I wouldn't deal Teheran for Sale straight up. Healthier, longer control, significant surplus value, tough as hell, mean as a snake.
 
Knucksie said:
Sometime somebody ought to explain why so many on this board are so eager to trade Inciarte.
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We just don't have many tradable non-pitching assets.

Inciarte is:

1. Valuable

2. Maybe as valuable as he'll ever be, with the control, the gold glove and the possibility of less offense going forward

3. Replaceable by Mallex Smith, some think (I do)
 
GovClintonTyree said:
We just don't have many tradable non-pitching assets.

Inciarte is:
1. Valuable
2. Maybe as valuable as he'll ever be, with the control, the gold glove and the possibility of less offense going forward
3. Replaceable by Mallex Smith, some think (I do)
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Ender just turned 26.

Less offense going forward? He hasn't even hit his stride yet!

I think Mallex would be serviceable replacing him, but not have the same impact as Ender.
 
Forever Fredi said:
Ender just turned 26.

Less offense going forward? He hasn't even hit his stride yet!

I think Mallex would be serviceable replacing him, but not have the same impact as Ender.
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If we're going to get an ace, it's going to hurt.

If you look at these last couple moves, I'm convinced the only way they make sense is if they're filling the holes they anticipate they'll need to fill if the ace thing comes to fruition. Rodriguez (and Peterson) at second for Albies, Garcia is one too many unless he's filling a gap for, say, Folty to be dealt.

It's not a tragic miscarriage of resources if they stand pat, but it allows us to cover the holes if some of our more attractive players wind up going elsewhere.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
If we're going to get an ace, it's going to hurt.

If you look at these last couple moves, I'm convinced the only way they make sense is if they're filling the holes they anticipate they'll need to fill if the ace thing comes to fruition. Rodriguez (and Peterson) at second for Albies, Garcia is one too many unless he's filling a gap for, say, Folty to be dealt.

It's not a tragic miscarriage of resources if they stand pat, but it allows us to cover the holes if some of our more attractive players wind up going elsewhere.
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I want Ender in the outfield of Neck and Kemp.

Mallex is still learning the ropes and Ender is already a sure thing. If we're planning on competing then Ender is definitely one of the guys you keep.
 
i have taken all the moves this offseason as saying "we are trying to do better than last year but there really isn't **** out there this year to sign longterm. That is why we gave some one year deals to maybe be better and bridge us to let the young guys get better to really start looking at competing in 2018 if things go right and there is a better market etc"
 
Forever Fredi said:
I want Ender in the outfield of Neck and Kemp.

Mallex is still learning the ropes and Ender is already a sure thing. If we're planning on competing then Ender is definitely one of the guys you keep.
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What's the big deal? Kemp is losing weight and Neck is a gold glove finalist.

:banana:
 
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