Semantics...you know what he meant.
Nick Swisher is thrilled the Braves released him...
- Thread starter goldfly
- Start date
Semantics...you know what he meant.
IF - and it's obviously a big if - you believe in some of these kids, you begin discussions with them BEFORE you ever get to the point that the finances become an issue. I mentioned offering Swanson the same type of money the Rays offered Longoria before he was promoted a while back. Is it a gamble? Of course. The thing is, you have to trust your evaluators/Coaches/scouts at some point if you're JS/Hart/Coppy etc., and put your neck on the line - otherwise you've hired the wrong people to begin with and you're never going to be successful anyway. Then his service-time clock never becomes an issue AND the exploding salaries that are going to continue never become a concern.
I've yet to hear the first person that doesn't think Swanson's going to be successful at whatever point he's promoted. If you can't save some money by offering him something that COULD become a team-friendly contract in the long-run before he's ever making money, you've got no shot at extending him at anything less than market value in the future. I know it drives lots of people crazy around here, but they trusted those people when they chose to extend Freddie for a "decent" figure and wouldn't entertain paying Heyward anything close to market value. Anyone who still wants to argue that decision is nuts. $50 million more for a guy who's great defensively, hurt constantly, hits less than .230, and can't hit the ball over the fence? No thanks - and I couldn't care less if he caught every ball hit in the air right of the LF power alley.
Since 2012 Freeman has played in all of 9 games more than Heyward. So the constantly hurt BS needs to stop. His main two reasons for missing games in his MLB career is getting hit in the face and having an appendectomy. Heyward is not injury prone. Freeman is the much larger risk with his wrist and eyes issue. Things that can come back to haunt him at some point. He's also hit 270 in that time frame while Freeman has hit 286. And Freeman has averaged 24 homers per 162 games while Heyward has averaged 18. Is Freeman a better hitter? Yeah he is. But the idea that Freeman is some superstar while Heyward is crap is false. Defense does matter and it's why Heyward is making more. Deal with it.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
Yeah, but Nick Swisher gets excited when his morning powerdump is successful.
As it stands we aren't even a mid market team right now. We're bottom 5 in payroll. Who knows if they're willing to go up once these guys make money.
.218/.331/.261/.591 and an OPS+ of 62
That's what the Cubs have gotten for $184 million so far.
If you don't think Theo and Jed would love to have some of that money back to try to extend Arrieta with, you're kidding yourself.
Actually they have only gotten that stat line for 3 million so far which is what he has been paid so far this year. If you think Theo and Jed believe that's what they are going to get from Heyward the rest of his time left then you're kidding yourself. Heyward started out super slow last year and finished as one of the best players in the league on the best team in the league. I feel something similar will happen this year once October rolls around as well.
rico43
<B>Director of Minor League Reports</B>
The Braves have not been in Richmond for a long, long time.
rico43
<B>Director of Minor League Reports</B>
jpx7
Very Flirtatious, but Doubts What Love Is.
Heyward must have sodomized and/or sold crack to a lot of the board's family members, given the amount of vitriol he receives. It really does seem personal for a lot of these people.
The fact is, Freeman and Heyward are both very good players; they get there different ways, but the end result—that they're both just below that "truly great" echelon—is the same. And both are being paid accordingly. But just because you think some teams have overvalued defense in their contract negotiations—and the book is out: maybe they have—doesn't justify gross exaggerations and mis-characterizations regarding Heyward's productivity, nor does it justify the volume of smug dismissals of any opinion contrary to "teh Heywood sucks lolz you kiddin yourself".
57Brave
Well-known member
oops. ..
I've always been one of the most guilty folks around here when it comes to downplaying Heyward's value, but not because I have anything against him. He's always been one of my favorite players just as Andrelton has. The reason isn't that I disagree that "value" comes in many different forms either. What I think often gets "missed" by those far more qualified to break down the new math than I've ever been is the fact that when they simplify things to $$$/WAR and other things to try to make it easier for us to understand is that they don't realize that's only important IF everyone was working with similar budgets. Unfortunately they're not. Several posters have referred to players like J-Hey and Tron as "luxuries" the Braves just can't afford, and as much as it pains most of us, they're right. Teams with smaller payrolls can't afford to pay glove-first guys $7-$8 million/WAR (or whatever the correct figure is at the moment) if they hope to compete. The Cubs can afford to do that with Heyward, and that's great for Jason - hopefully he'll get a ring to go along with getting the extra money he "deserves". Quite a few people here go out of their way to state that the Braves won't play at the top-end of the free-agent pool. The thing is, if they'd have offered Heyward the money the market did, they'd have $26 million per tied up in Inciarte's defense and Markakis' offense and STILL wouldn't have anyone to hit behind Freeman. We need much more well-rounded players all over the diamond - the hope is that the improved offensive production from Swanson or Albies at SS will at the very least offset the loss of Simba's stronger D.
Everyone's frustrated (and understandably so), but the presence of Simba and Heyward on this roster wouldn't make things any better - this team's not losing because of a lack of starting pitching, it's not even losing because of bad defense (although it's been painful to watch at times as well. This team's losing because the vast majority of players in the lineup can't hit at all, and neither of those players would do much to correct that - no matter how much any of us like them.
Dalyn
Fredi Gonzalez Supporter
That would endear him to most of us, you'd think.
yeezus
It's OVER 5,000!
The opposite is also true.
I really like Heyward as a player and always have. I don't think he's a great hitter, I think his WAR is consistently overblown because of his stellar defense in RF, and I don't view him as a hitter you rely on. These views also get mocked by some. That doesn't mean I don't think he's a very good player. But if you didn't want to pay him $23M a year, some called you crazy. I'm a Heyward h8er because I don't think he's worth $23M and don't think he's a great hitter.
How much do you think Heyward is worth then?
