Nikki Haley To Call For Confederate Flag To Be Removed From South Carolina Capitol:

I am all for a renewed focus on community building, which IMO actually starts with some fundamental changes in how we live—not so much on hot-button social issues, but in building liveable, sustainable communities, which means (in somewhere like, say, Charleston) having communities where people of every class and in every social strata have access to food, transportation, and employment. Dis-incentivizing sprawl goes a long way towards this end. Incentivizing folks to live, and work, and go to school alongside one another is a good start. Next, we look at the way law enforcement approaches these communities. Good community planning and good policing are some pretty crucial parts of the equation.

I'm gonna say, though, that as far as I'm concerned, this strange spasm of doing the right thing with regard to the flag is actually advancing the ball further down the field than you might be crediting.

By the way your first paragraph is exactly what Paul Ryan is trying to push for his anti poverty campaign. Maybe not the same way you would go about it, but the goals are the same. I really am interested to see if a few states would try his plan and see what happens.
 
I am all for a renewed focus on community building, which IMO actually starts with some fundamental changes in how we live—not so much on hot-button social issues, but in building liveable, sustainable communities, which means (in somewhere like, say, Charleston) having communities where people of every class and in every social strata have access to food, transportation, and employment. Dis-incentivizing sprawl goes a long way towards this end. Incentivizing folks to live, and work, and go to school alongside one another is a good start. Next, we look at the way law enforcement approaches these communities. Good community planning and good policing are some pretty crucial parts of the equation.

I agree with this about a million times over. Although, if I had to guess, we might differ on the apparatus used to construct these communities. Realistically speaking, I have my doubts about the federal government being able to efficiently drive the kind of grassroots sentiment necessary to rehabilitate some of the nation's more fractured cultural segments. I do gravitate towards your notion of incentivization on a federal level, especially as it pertains to infrastructure and how that can also work to foment necessary change.

The Weimarian Germans used the term 'Volksgemeinschaft' (roughly: people's community) to describe a process of foregoing classism and various social inequities to achieve a stronger, more unified whole. Of course, the Nazi's mutilated this concept during WWII, using it to dastardly ends by obsessing over the 'Volk' component and who actually qualified as a true German (and really, a true human). Nevertheless, it was used with great success. Maybe a bit too jingoistic, but I feel like Americans are more drawn to themselves than the State -- and really, what better tactic is available to massage people into setting aside their individual differences than a truly common good.

Love or hate him, Jim DeMint preaches the building of a community in 'little platoons' -- a concept being pushed by conservatives like Paul Ryan and spawning from the Heritage think-tank. Part of me believes that the country is well past the era where this type of community building can be truly actualized, but I still cling to the bottom-up direction of it all.

I'm gonna say, though, that as far as I'm concerned, this strange spasm of doing the right thing with regard to the flag is actually advancing the ball further down the field than you might be crediting.

Maybe. And I certainly hope you are right. Although I worry (to the point where I realize it comes across as harping) that the kumbaya session of late has dangerously ignored the stubborn, archaically biogted thinkers that have long harbored the belief that black people are 'freeriders' doted on and unfairly empowered by the government. I'm scared this gives said subsets precisely the example they are looking for to further radicalize and entrench upon.

True story: shut down a bar last night about 15 minutes from downtown CHS that played 'Dixie' at last call.

Old demons die hard.
 
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/25/o...nstitutional-racism.html?smid=tw-nytimes&_r=0

Since the NYT apparently has (lamely) prevented copying and pasting from Opinion Pages:

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I don't think states should display the rebel flag, I don't care if people do. I just want people to own up to what it stands for. I don't care about people, I just hate people lying about their choices.
 
I am all for a renewed focus on community building, which IMO actually starts with some fundamental changes in how we live—not so much on hot-button social issues, but in building liveable, sustainable communities, which means (in somewhere like, say, Charleston) having communities where people of every class and in every social strata have access to food, transportation, and employment. Dis-incentivizing sprawl goes a long way towards this end. Incentivizing folks to live, and work, and go to school alongside one another is a good start. Next, we look at the way law enforcement approaches these communities. Good community planning and good policing are some pretty crucial parts of the equation.

I'm gonna say, though, that as far as I'm concerned, this strange spasm of doing the right thing with regard to the flag is actually advancing the ball further down the field than you might be crediting.

Suburban sprawl, very much driven by the free market, is a plague on the American landscape leading to both rampant obesity and the disunion of its citizens.
 
But the Confederate flag and this clownish array of gutless presidential candidates are not the important issues here. What matters is the cost our nation continues to pay for its

failure to regulate guns and to achieve racial justice. If it took the slaughter of nine people in a church to get a single state to remove a flag that is, after all, only a historic

symbol of racism, you have to wonder how many people will have to die to end the implementation of racism, including the homicidal police practices and restrictive new voting

laws that have proliferated in the Obama era. The notion that pulling down a flag in South Carolina somehow amounts to a major breakthrough in American racial progress is

absurd. That flag never should have been flown at the Capitol in the first place. It was first installed there in 1961 as an implicit act of resistance to the growing civil-rights

movement. It should have been trashed long before a mass murder belatedly sealed its demise.

- Frank Rich
 
But the Confederate flag and this clownish array of gutless presidential candidates are not the important issues here. What matters is the cost our nation continues to pay for its

failure to regulate guns and to achieve racial justice. If it took the slaughter of nine people in a church to get a single state to remove a flag that is, after all, only a historic

symbol of racism, you have to wonder how many people will have to die to end the implementation of racism, including the homicidal police practices and restrictive new voting

laws that have proliferated in the Obama era. The notion that pulling down a flag in South Carolina somehow amounts to a major breakthrough in American racial progress is

absurd. That flag never should have been flown at the Capitol in the first place. It was first installed there in 1961 as an implicit act of resistance to the growing civil-rights

movement. It should have been trashed long before a mass murder belatedly sealed its demise.

- Frank Rich

So no comments about the Clintons and the Stars on the Arkansas flag, that the Clintons proudly supported? Shocked that liberals are so hypocritical.
 
if the flag means what you say I'm just wondering why you don't feel the same way about Hillary and Bill who had no problem flying a flag with stars on it to remember the confederacy.

The act should be bad regardless of who commits the crime, right?
 
Bill Clinton not Hillary was the Governor of Arkansas until 1992.
23 years ago - and frankly /i think Bill was too busy with Jennifer Flowers and Hillary with /vince Foster and real estate deals and Rose Law firm etc to really know what was on the Arkansas state flag.
Somewhere people have to decide which Clinton Faux Scandal to be outraged over

Please see HRC stand on the Stars and Bars circa 1991
 
FYI, the Stars and Bars is not the flag that has been the subject of national debate recently.
 
That's good but it's vague. How do you get to a point of shared community responsibility?

That is a good and TOUGH question to tackle. Where do we begin? Helping inner city blacks can be a start but we have obstacles there and you know who they are. Trying to get a label that resulted from 60's and 70's and gotten worse since then is going to be hard to tackle. Grant it committing a crime against our own and actually some people want that. I think what tick off a lot of whites is us marrying white women and vice-versa diluting the gene pool but a lot of people are mutts anyway, I am definitely one.

So until that stigma is gone, we will continue to have issues and neither side wants to invest in this. I want to so bad and trying so hard to do my part in educating my race younger people in regards to responsibility.
 
That is a good and TOUGH question to tackle. Where do we begin? Helping inner city blacks can be a start but we have obstacles there and you know who they are. Trying to get a label that resulted from 60's and 70's and gotten worse since then is going to be hard to tackle. Grant it committing a crime against our own and actually some people want that. I think what tick off a lot of whites is us marrying white women and vice-versa diluting the gene pool but a lot of people are mutts anyway, I am definitely one.

So until that stigma is gone, we will continue to have issues and neither side wants to invest in this. I want to so bad and trying so hard to do my part in educating my race younger people in regards to responsibility.

It's because this is a very complicated issue. There is no ONE correct answer. Inner city leaders should work with law enforcement, but law enforcement should do a better job too and stop defending that tiny minority of them who are IMO criminals themselves. Neither side trusts the justice system (their word for it, not mine) who takes criminals with expensive lawyers and puts them right back on the streets (in those rare cases where they are actually caught) so that they can go after those who turned them in originally is maybe the biggest flaw in this system, but I definitely agree all sides have to work together. The question is which side will "be the bigger person" and start the process. Don't hold your breath though.

Oh, and for the 943,508th time, pointing out that the Dems have boatloads of sins and that "they really don't care either" doesn't excuse even ONE Repub sin, it's a criminal mentality/spirit. "I have to make sure my side gets away with as much crap as the other side so that we can have justice" is one of this nation's biggest problems and SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many otherwise good people are as "conditioned" as Pavlov's dogs ever were. When we do "go down" as a nation, it'll be harder to find any nation/culture/society in history who deserved it more.
 
It's because this is a very complicated issue. There is no ONE correct answer. Inner city leaders should work with law enforcement, but law enforcement should do a better job too and stop defending that tiny minority of them who are IMO criminals themselves. Neither side trusts the justice system (their word for it, not mine) who takes criminals with expensive lawyers and puts them right back on the streets (in those rare cases where they are actually caught) so that they can go after those who turned them in originally is maybe the biggest flaw in this system, but I definitely agree all sides have to work together. The question is which side will "be the bigger person" and start the process. Don't hold your breath though.

Oh, and for the 943,508th time, pointing out that the Dems have boatloads of sins and that "they really don't care either" doesn't excuse even ONE Repub sin, it's a criminal mentality/spirit. "I have to make sure my side gets away with as much crap as the other side so that we can have justice" is one of this nation's biggest problems and SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO many otherwise good people are as "conditioned" as Pavlov's dogs ever were. When we do "go down" as a nation, it'll be harder to find any nation/culture/society in history who deserved it more.

I blame both sides actually.

Rep - greed, sending jobs overseas that lower educated blacks can do, aka factory jobs that pays well.

Dem - paternalistic as long as you vote for us mentality, numbing our desire to actually work.

But I blame Jackson and Sharpton the most and you know why. They only target what they can get out of it and not helping us out. Just wondering when they will address the black on black crime, literally gun shots in the hundreds on weekends alone, but not a word from them. It is a bad word to utter them and black on black violence in the same sentence in a black family outing. We need to fix our own backyard first. Our president isn't doing much, our so called black leaders are not doing much or quite frankly, NOTHING. It is frustrating that people like me are trying to do something, parenting, counseling and teaching younger blacks but it is not enough.

There is another softball player that is on my team that is black and his son plays as well with us. We make fun of him calling him Willie Mays Hays because he acts just like him. I've watched in him how he parent's his 16-yr old son. I overheard a conversation about handling your responsibility. Not like the movie "Above the Rim" when Tupac order a kid to be shot, but about growing up being a man and get a job. So his dad heard another on our team about a position being open and that is when he said it. His son told me his dad is always there making sure he is not in the bad crowd (kind of tough when the black pop of this city is less than 1.5%). Always in the books, have a summer job, all the right things and he is really cool. What shocks me, he grew up in Mississippi and I was like, wth are you doing way up here? He said wife and job and been here for over 12 years.

We need more black parents to instill responsibility into our youths so we can get rid of the "thug" mentality that is attached to our skin color.
 
I do find it hilarious that conservatives and Republicans jump to claim Lincoln as a Republican that ended slavery and make sure they remind you he's Republican... yet with this past week's Confederate Flag debate all the things I read about Lincoln is Lincoln didn't care about ending slavery, states rights, etc.
 
I blame both sides actually.

Rep - greed, sending jobs overseas that lower educated blacks can do, aka factory jobs that pays well.
Dem - paternalistic as long as you vote for us mentality, numbing our desire to actually work.

I don't disagree about the Dems here but the Repubs are just as bad if not worse, they appeal to regular Americans who don't want their handouts at election time, but then they send out just as much in corporate welfare and other tax breaks for America's wealthiest citizens than the Dems ever thought about giving away. The main thing to me is the regular folks who support the Repubs turn a blind eye while the rich get richer and the poor (including them) get poorer and poorer and just don't/won't see what's going on right under their noses. It actually reminds me so much of when slaves on Southern plantations felt like they finally had someone to "look down on" when they talked about "the poor white trash". It didn't exactly help their quality of life did it? Just more mind games.

But I blame Jackson and Sharpton the most and you know why. They only target what they can get out of it and not helping us out. Just wondering when they will address the black on black crime, literally gun shots in the hundreds on weekends alone, but not a word from them. It is a bad word to utter them and black on black violence in the same sentence in a black family outing. We need to fix our own backyard first. Our president isn't doing much, our so called black leaders are not doing much or quite frankly, NOTHING. It is frustrating that people like me are trying to do something, parenting, counseling and teaching younger blacks but it is not enough.

l loathe Jesse and Al too, but IMO you hate them so much because of their ethnic persuasion is the same as yours but that's where the similarity ends and people tend to try and lump them in with you which is silly to say the least but that's how stereotypes work. It's kind of like when Foxworthy tells a "stupid southerner" joke we all laugh, but when a damned Yankmee (like my brother in law) tells one it makes me want to punch him, not that most things don't make me want to punch him.

There is another softball player that is on my team that is black and his son plays as well with us. We make fun of him calling him Willie Mays Hays because he acts just like him. I've watched in him how he parent's his 16-yr old son. I overheard a conversation about handling your responsibility. Not like the movie "Above the Rim" when Tupac order a kid to be shot, but about growing up being a man and get a job. So his dad heard another on our team about a position being open and that is when he said it. His son told me his dad is always there making sure he is not in the bad crowd (kind of tough when the black pop of this city is less than 1.5%). Always in the books, have a summer job, all the right things and he is really cool. What shocks me, he grew up in Mississippi and I was like, wth are you doing way up here? He said wife and job and been here for over 12 years.

OK, are we talking about Willie Mays Hays from Major League I or Major League 2?? :icon_biggrin:

We need more black parents to instill responsibility into our youths so we can get rid of the "thug" mentality that is attached to our skin color.

We need more ALL parents to instill those qualities in their kids, black, white, green, blue, and otherwise.
 
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