Now Aetna?

goldfly said:
as much as i enjoy keep spinning the topic to whatever point you want to make till we are so far off the topic is fun

i would rather stick to the topic of single payer and wait for the answer to this one: "Not everyone in the modern world has single payer. There are modern countries who have much better healthcare than the US without going to a single payer healthcare system."

anyone who wants to talk about big pharms profits after them acting like some countries haven't gotten prices down by subsidizing medicine isn't really worth the time other than a lebron gif showing how exhausting trying to interact with such a person is
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I wouldn't say BETTER healthcare, more like affordable healthcare. That is why they come here because we have the best doctors. What did my ex wife said about German doctors scared the hell out of me. When our daughter was born, he brought her to a room and said, do you Americans cut the umbilical cord? I said yes. Here are the scissors, you can cut it. WTF???????????? They actually have interns do all the work so they can get experience on the ones who don't work, the ones that have insurance get all the cushy doctors. Same in England. I was fortunate my employer paid my insurance and I got a cat scan and did not cost me a cent, normal Brit, around 500 quid. It is a privileged to get one. That won't fly here.
 
AerchAngel said:
I wouldn't say BETTER healthcare, more like affordable healthcare. That is why they come here because we have the best doctors. What did my ex wife said about German doctors scared the hell out of me. When our daughter was born, he brought her to a room and said, do you Americans cut the umbilical cord? I said yes. Here are the scissors, you can cut it. WTF???????????? They actually have interns do all the work so they can get experience on the ones who don't work, the ones that have insurance get all the cushy doctors. Same in England.

I was fortunate my employer paid my insurance and I got a cat scan and did not cost me a cent, normal Brit, around 500 quid. It is a privileged to get one. That won't fly here.
Click to expand...

Did your ex wife tell you it happened or did the doctor hand you the scissors ?
Either way
Not an uncommon practice in the US of offering the father the opportunity to cut umbilical cord.
Hope you took him up on his courtesy

2nd ly.
The second part of this post is a situation that is common in the US also.
Pretty sure the plan is not to indenture the MD's and make them punch a clock/
I agree that wouldn't fly here, except where Drs are expected to adhere to HMO quota policies, but
a half an understanding of todays system and the proposed system by say Sen Sanders, there will still be high priced doctors and the market will rule. As well as moderatly priced Drs and like an auto body shop lower priced Drs
Those in higher demand will charge a higher fee.
And so on and so forth

The object is to insure everyone gets care as needed.

Why would anyone think otherwise
 
Of course they would still create things.

That the business. The market has just evolved.

This isn't ****ing complicated
 
goldfly said:
obviously. your ideas presented thus far of just keeping it the same don't really help the normal person overall. we have people going bankrupt cause of an accident or cancer etc etc

don't see how this system benefits in anyway the normal person

i would still like to see your list for this statement:
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So you are clearly avoiding my question. And I still don't understand why my specific answer to your early question was some sort of cop out. Just a weird response from you that I'm not sure how to reply. I was hoping to get you to answer my question first, but you obviously don't want to answer it, so I'll give you my list:

New Zealand
Singapore
Germany
Belgium
Netherlands
Austria
Denmark
Luxembourg
Italy
Portugal
Cyprus
Greece
South Korea
Iceland
Switzerland
US

I personally like the basic premise of the Singapore model best.
 
all of those have universal health care except the USA

in some form or fashion

hell, i would argue that Switzerland is closer to the ACA way of doing it at times

even your singapore model you like "Singapore's system uses a combination of compulsory savings from payroll deductions (funded by both employers and workers) a nationalized health insurance plan, and government subsidies, as well as "actively regulating the supply and prices of healthcare services in the country" to keep costs in check"

so, i'm not sure how my statement of stepping up to the rest of the modern countries differs after your list

what is your question? how are they single payer from that map? well, in most cases people go in and get what needs to be done and leave. the person doesn't have to decide if the medicine they need or food is what they will purchase or go bankrupt to get a surgery they have to have etc etc

if single payer wasn't your question while i was waiting to find out what modern countries don't have universal health care then please tell me which post to look at
 
Oh come on. Your argument was we're the only country in the modern world that doesn't have single payer. I was just pointing out that that's not true. There's clearly a difference between universal healthcare and single payer. The US technically has a universal healthcare policy already. Your argument is that we should just go single payer, because it's the best and everyone else does it. That's just patently false, and I think there are better universal healthcare programs than single payer. I don't think single payer is the best option because it has significant problems in regards to quality of service. I personally support more of a two tier system in which we all have catastrophic coverage through a small tax.
 
most of those are single payer still when it comes to the major and non selective things. thus they are single payer in my view

switzerland might be the only one that is actually like ours from that list.
 
weso1 said:
Oh come on. Your argument was we're the only country in the modern world that doesn't have single payer. I was just pointing out that that's not true. There's clearly a difference between universal healthcare and single payer. The US technically has a universal healthcare policy already. Your argument is that we should just go single payer, because it's the best and everyone else does it. That's just patently false, and I think there are better universal healthcare programs than single payer. I don't think single payer is the best option because it has significant problems in regards to quality of service. I personally support more of a two tier system in which we all have catastrophic coverage through a small tax.
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Germany has something of a similar two tier system. Everyone has healthcare, but like I mentioned above, you can buy coverage to get the Cadillac benefits. We even have it here up to a certain point. We all have accidental care as it is required by law (car accident/heart attack, unknowns) but if you go in to check something or preventive medicine that is where other countries trumps us.
 
PHARMA CEO GAVE HERSELF AN $18 MILLION RAISE AFTER HIKING EPIPEN PRICES

The pharmaceutical company that cornered the market on the life-saving EpiPen and dramatically increased its price also jacked up the pay of top executives.

Between 2007, when Mylan acquired the patent for the EpiPen, to 2015, the wholesale price had skyrocketed from $56.64 to $317.82 — a price increase of 461 percent. Similarly, compensation for Mylan CEO Heather Bresch increased astronomically over the same time period. According to NBC News, Bresch went from making $2.453,456 in 2007 to $18,931,068 in 2015, amounting to a 671 percent raise over eight years.
 
goldfly said:
PHARMA CEO GAVE HERSELF AN $18 MILLION RAISE AFTER HIKING EPIPEN PRICES

The pharmaceutical company that cornered the market on the life-saving EpiPen and dramatically increased its price also jacked up the pay of top executives.

Between 2007, when Mylan acquired the patent for the EpiPen, to 2015, the wholesale price had skyrocketed from $56.64 to $317.82 — a price increase of 461 percent. Similarly, compensation for Mylan CEO Heather Bresch increased astronomically over the same time period. According to NBC News, Bresch went from making $2.453,456 in 2007 to $18,931,068 in 2015, amounting to a 671 percent raise over eight years.
Click to expand...

Bring a competitor in so the price will lower. There is nothing legally we can do about this except get others involve and make the product cheaper.
 
AerchAngel said:
Bring a competitor in so the price will lower. There is nothing legally we can do about this except get others involve and make the product cheaper.
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Cqo_-ptWAAAQVnY.jpg:large
 
I don't think you read what you post As in all of it:

A spokesman for NHS England added: "Major surgery poses much higher risks for severely overweight patients who smoke So local GP-led Clinical Commissioning Groups are entirely right to ensure these patients first get support to lose weight and try and stop smoking before their hip or knee operation. Reducing obesity and cutting smoking not only benefits patients, but saves the NHS and taxpayers millions of pounds.*
"This does not and cannot mean blanket bans on particular patients such as smokers getting operations, which would be inconsistent with the NHS constitution.*
"Vale of York CCG is currently under "special measures" legal direction, and NHS England is today asking it to review its proposed approach before it takes effect to ensure it is proportionate, clinically reasonable, and consistent with applicable national clinical guidelines."


Can't say if I agree or disagree - but the last paragraph seems to contradict the point I think you are trying to make
 
Perhaps you only read what you wanted to...

Hospital leaders in North Yorkshire said that patients with a body mass index (BMI) of 30 or above – as well as smokers – will be barred from most surgery for up to a year amid increasingly desperate measures to plug a funding black hole. The restrictions will apply to standard hip and knee operations.

The decision, described by the Royal College of Surgeons as the “most severe the modern NHS has ever seen”, led to warnings that other trusts will soon be forced to follow suit and rationing will become the norm if the current funding crisis continues.

Chris Hopson, the head of NHS Providers, which represents acute care, ambulance and community services, said: “I think we are going to see more and more decisions like this.

“It’s the only way providers are going to be able to balance their books, and in a way you have to applaud their honesty. You can see why they’re doing this – the service is bursting at the seams.”
Click to expand...
 
I saw all of that. The have to cut corners - at risk surgery is the corner.

The last paragraph usually comes with the understanding:

In conclusion
 
Again, my wife and Terry Gross begin questions with So

You are having a hard time dealing with conclusions today.
Let me help.

Generally the word so is used to sum up a group of ideas.
Your use of the word so implies you already know the answer before asking the question
True ?
or
So, true ?
 
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