zbhargrove
Well-known member
Was posted in the Albers thread, but he has been traded to the Mariners. No word on the return, but obviously not expecting much.
Official 2017 Trade Deadilne Thread
- Thread starter Oklahomabrave
- Start date
zbhargrove
Well-known member
Looks like it was only for cash considerations.... super exciting news!
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Stanton cleared waivers.
It's hard to see how the Marlins new owners would be able to pull the trigger on a Stanton trade right now (even though it's only an agreement in principle, they would likely get the blame) unless they can somehow trade him and pin it to Loria (who shouldn't care).
Obviously the Marlins need to clear some payroll since they are hemorrhaging money.
I think the Yankees will have a hard time not trading for Stanton if he's available simply because of the Judge/Stanton tower effect. However, I wonder what Jeter being in the new ownership group does to that possibility.
As for Atlanta, Stanton is just what the team needs, a corner OF RH power bat to team in the middle of the lineup with Freeman. The only problem is his cost in terms of long term payroll commitment. However, the FO keeps saying that they will spend money to make the team better and just by not making middle to back end pitching signings like Colon, Garcia and Dickey, they could clear enough to fit him in. In terms of what it would cost in terms of prospects going the other way, I would say it wouldn't take a huge haul simply because of his contract but wouldn't be a straight give-away either. And the Kemp/Markakis problem isn't going away.
I actually think it much more likely that the Braves try to trade for Donaldson in the offseason to play 3B.
A guy can dream and say they do both:
CF Inciarte
2B Albies
LF Acuna
1B Freeman
RF Stanton
3B Donaldson
C Flowers
SS Swanson
That's a little too RH but I could live with it....
It's hard to see how the Marlins new owners would be able to pull the trigger on a Stanton trade right now (even though it's only an agreement in principle, they would likely get the blame) unless they can somehow trade him and pin it to Loria (who shouldn't care).
Obviously the Marlins need to clear some payroll since they are hemorrhaging money.
I think the Yankees will have a hard time not trading for Stanton if he's available simply because of the Judge/Stanton tower effect. However, I wonder what Jeter being in the new ownership group does to that possibility.
As for Atlanta, Stanton is just what the team needs, a corner OF RH power bat to team in the middle of the lineup with Freeman. The only problem is his cost in terms of long term payroll commitment. However, the FO keeps saying that they will spend money to make the team better and just by not making middle to back end pitching signings like Colon, Garcia and Dickey, they could clear enough to fit him in. In terms of what it would cost in terms of prospects going the other way, I would say it wouldn't take a huge haul simply because of his contract but wouldn't be a straight give-away either. And the Kemp/Markakis problem isn't going away.
I actually think it much more likely that the Braves try to trade for Donaldson in the offseason to play 3B.
A guy can dream and say they do both:
CF Inciarte
2B Albies
LF Acuna
1B Freeman
RF Stanton
3B Donaldson
C Flowers
SS Swanson
That's a little too RH but I could live with it....
Hudson2
Well-known member
The Blue Jays aren't good and have a crappy farm system so they should no doubt trade Donaldson this offseason and we should be 1st in line bc he shouldn't cost a ton with just one year left on the deal. But could you imagine if the Yanks did get Stanton and put him and Judge back to back? I hate the Yanks but that would be amazing to watch. The Braves will make a splash this offseason in some way. I just hope they don't trade hitting for pitching. I'd rather trade pitching for hitting and Stanton should be right up at the top.
Southcack77
Well-known member
An opt-out would be a godsend to the Fish, but I'm not really seeing why he'd do it other than he didn't want to be in Miami any more.
Trading for 1 year of Donaldson is not something a 73 win team does in the subsequent offseason. That is a move made by a clear contender.
The Braves decided to build around pitching prospects. They are not going to contend until enough of those pitching prospects turn into 3-4 solid pieces of a MLB rotation. Nothing the Braves attempt to rush their contention window will change that fact. We have seen this fact driven home with every "win now" move the Braves have made the last 3 years. Only the thickest of the thick can't see it by now.
The Braves should hold long term assets until they can fill 3-4 spots in the rotation with 2+ win homegrown pitchers. So far, the first 2 waves of pitchers have completely failed, and the next wave of hope is the Gohara, Soroka, Allard, Wright wave that could make the Braves competitive by 2019.
The Braves decided to build around pitching prospects. They are not going to contend until enough of those pitching prospects turn into 3-4 solid pieces of a MLB rotation. Nothing the Braves attempt to rush their contention window will change that fact. We have seen this fact driven home with every "win now" move the Braves have made the last 3 years. Only the thickest of the thick can't see it by now.
The Braves should hold long term assets until they can fill 3-4 spots in the rotation with 2+ win homegrown pitchers. So far, the first 2 waves of pitchers have completely failed, and the next wave of hope is the Gohara, Soroka, Allard, Wright wave that could make the Braves competitive by 2019.
50PoundHead
Hessmania Forever
There will likely be a ton of big moves this off-season with some high-profile players getting traded. Stanton and Donaldson are probably near the top of that list, although as nsacpi points in straight performance-for-pay terms Stanton will more than earn his keep in Miami if he stays there. That said, if the Marlins need to shed payroll, they know where to start. They probably unload Prado for peanuts as well.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
2020 will be his age 30 season. I think he will post 5-6 WAR per year over the next three seasons. He will do better financially if he hits the market after that kind of production. If he doesn't opt out he makes 30M/year over his age 31-37 seasons. I think he will do better than that as a free agent, barring something bad happening over the next 3 years.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
Obviously, I have loudly said this for several years. No question in my mind that the Braves should have fully committed to the rebuild, taken its lumps and been fully loaded to compete in 2019/2020. They didn't do that and it looks like they won't be good until then anyway, which is what I expected to happen. That means they will waste the best years of Freeman and likely Inciarte while ruining some prospects by rushing them up before they are ready (plus ineffectively managing service time). All that has already happened and likely will continue to happen.
The team CAN get better if they wisely spend some money. Will they? Can they? Could it be enough?
It's hard to answer those questions without knowing the parameters. Obviously if you trade for Donaldson, you do so with the expectation that you extend him for 3 or 4 years. And, it doesn't look like there are real viable ml prospects for 3B until you get down to Maitan - there's hope for guys like Ruiz (fading), Riley, Demerritte.
The commitment to Kemp hurts flexibility obviously. The inability of the first wave of pitching to do much at all hurts. Let's face it, the FO pretty much crapped out on all the "divesting" trades. Even the Miller trade was a bit lucky with Inciarte becoming the jewel and Blair (bust) and Swanson (self inflicted wound) likely never being what was wanted.
I know what the Braves should have done and what they should still do but they aren't doing that. Given that, I've moved on to trying to find a different way.
I'm pretty sure at this point that this "reload" will fail. Without the emergence of Acuna I would put the odds at almost 100%. Right now I'm at about 75% because the FO has done some very stupid things and continues to do stupid things, the purse strings really haven't been loosened much in reality, the ROI experienced from the divestment trades has mostly been a bust and they have had more bad luck than good.
My definition of a good rebuild is to place the team in a talent and payroll position to be competitive for 5-10 years. Not win the WS every year or Division or even the WC but win more games than you lose and have a chance every year. Like the Cardinals or the Braves of the 90's.
What I think we will see is the Braves get good for a year or two then crater back into another rebuild.
sturg33
I
You think he would be able to sign for something better than 7/$210M after his age 30 season?
Not saying you're wrong... is there any precedent for that?
sturg33
I
I think you nailed it here. And i have no faith that this FO will make the right decisions going forward.
Really unfortunate
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
Yeah. Take a look at what Pujols signed for after his age 31 season. And add in the appropriate inflation adjustment. I'm pretty confident Stanton will get something better than 7/210, barring some kind of serious injury or other issue. Or take a look at what Greinke got after his age 31 season. Or David Price after his age 29 seasons. Add in some inflation to both those comps.
Yup. Inflation is the key here. By the time Stanton could opt out would we really be surprised to see 2 war players making high teens or 20 million a year. At some point the salary increase will slow down but it's been increasing at a staggering rate lately.
Horsehide Harry
<B>Mr. Free Trade</B>
The Marlins are an interesting case.
They are losing significant money. They are getting a new owner. They have a lot of desirable talent but some of it is either already expensive (Stanton) or soon will be (Ozuna). They also have some dead or near dead money - Chen, Prado, Volquez, Ziegler, Tazawa (about $50M in 2018 dollars total).
They have some interesting pieces that either is on cheap long term deals (Gordon, Yelich) or have 3+ years of control after this season (Bour, Realmuto, Strailey, Urena).
They have very little money they could recoup just by cutting a player or not resigning him Kohler ($5.75M), Ellis ($2.5M), Ichiro ($2M).
They are losing significant money. They are getting a new owner. They have a lot of desirable talent but some of it is either already expensive (Stanton) or soon will be (Ozuna). They also have some dead or near dead money - Chen, Prado, Volquez, Ziegler, Tazawa (about $50M in 2018 dollars total).
They have some interesting pieces that either is on cheap long term deals (Gordon, Yelich) or have 3+ years of control after this season (Bour, Realmuto, Strailey, Urena).
They have very little money they could recoup just by cutting a player or not resigning him Kohler ($5.75M), Ellis ($2.5M), Ichiro ($2M).
Those are my absolute favorite fan trade proposals. Hmm...let me find all the prospects I don't like and wouldn't care if we lost. If I would be 100% fine with losing all these players, I'm sure a major league FO would want it.
Hudson2
Well-known member
So murphs real name is Gary Rogers..