Official 2022 Offseason Moves Thread

PawPawMaxwell said:
With Coppy's crippling decision the lack of International prospects is showing. These picks may help going forward.
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Eh, we won the World Series, I don't care if we lose the next 10 years until we're rebuilt. I don't think that will be a problem for us, but I do agree that being shrewd with moves like this is key for Atlanta to stay relevant without a huge budget and without a ton of resources from Coppy's death sentence.
 
zitothebrave said:
The issue i have with your method is it's agnostic of other factors.

In 2008 Andrus was 19 and Feliz was 19. They were young.

The issue I have with the trade was the same back then, we weren't that good of a team. I know we were "only" 5 games back or something. But the team was a mess. Andruw was falling apart, aside from Chipped the team was a bunch of average to above average hitters who didn't play much defense. At least in the infield. Chipper was never a stellar defender by this point in his career it was certainly true. Renteria was an offensive first Shortstop, Kelly Johnson wasn't great defensively, that's not great. Coupled with out pitching staff which was Smoltz, Hudson and a slew of bums.

Just to reiterate guys who started for us that year. Chuck James, Buddy Carlyle, Kyle Davies, Jo Jo Reyes, Lance Cormier, Mark Redmon, Jeff Bennett, Anthony Lerew, The only ones of those who gave us a positive value were James and Bennett. That says something bad.

And when we made that trade I wasn't really pissed at the rumored trade which was Harrison, Salty and Andrus, it was the inclusion of Feliz that was a dagger.

Can you imagine if instead of that trade we held those pieces and rolled into 2008 looking to make other deals. Salty had to go, because of McCann, but imagine a different world where instead of blowing the budget on Tex we tinker with a C/1B platoon while looking to trade Salty, or just straight up trade him for someone who can play 1B but isn't an elite talent.

Imagine a 2009 Atlanta Braves team with Andrus instead of Escobar, a solid kid like Harrison so we don't have to sign either Lowe or Kawakami, and Feliz added to that deadly bullpen with Soriano, Gonzalez, Moylan, Medlen, and O'Flaherty.

Or again just used those pieces more wisely in a trade. The issue was 2 fold for me. First there was no way Teixeira was sticking around like fools like Shanks were saying. Second this was a hubris trade by Scheurholz who wanted to reclaim glory, but seemingly forgot that this team wasn't that good the year before, with a team that was producing better. 2 of our 3 best players from the year before (McCann and Andruw) were having bad years. What we gained from better years at 2B, SS, RF and LF was minimal to the big losses in CF, C, and 1B Of course Tex would solve one of those issues, but that was it. 06 rotation was a mess and largely rolled into 07 with the same rotation. Didn't make any moves just kept rolling with James, Davies, etc.

THe Braves management of that era was so full of themselves, they shot the Franchise in the foot. The saving grace was that Heyward, Freeman, and Hanson were coming along
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You know, between 2008-2011 Frank Wren put together an unbelievable rotation, and I'm not kidding. Tommy Hanson, Jair Jurrjens, Kris Medlen and Brandon Beachy all looked like gold when they were first dropped into the rotation. A shoulder, depression and a nasty cocaine addiction, a knee that never got better, and four Tommy Johns and we're scrambling to cobble together a rotation with Lowe, Kawakami, Vasquez, etc.

It's great to be good, but you gotta be a little lucky, too. With that pitching Wren rolled snake eyes. That, coupled with his overwhelming urge to overpay ****ty players in free agency and his winning personality, and - boom! - hello Coppalella.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
You know, between 2008-2011 Frank Wren put together an unbelievable rotation, and I'm not kidding. Tommy Hanson, Jair Jurrjens, Kris Medlen and Brandon Beachy all looked like gold when they were first dropped into the rotation. A shoulder, depression and a nasty cocaine addiction, a knee that never got better, and four Tommy Johns and we're scrambling to cobble together a rotation with Lowe, Kawakami, Vasquez, etc.

It's great to be good, but you gotta be a little lucky, too. With that pitching Wren rolled snake eyes. That, coupled with his overwhelming urge to overpay ****ty players in free agency and his winning personality, and - boom! - hello Coppalella.
Click to expand...

You won't ever convince me we weren't doing something in the training room or with arm prep that ruined some careers. That rash of injuries was unreal.
 
GovClintonTyree said:
You know, between 2008-2011 Frank Wren put together an unbelievable rotation, and I'm not kidding. Tommy Hanson, Jair Jurrjens, Kris Medlen and Brandon Beachy all looked like gold when they were first dropped into the rotation. A shoulder, depression and a nasty cocaine addiction, a knee that never got better, and four Tommy Johns and we're scrambling to cobble together a rotation with Lowe, Kawakami, Vasquez, etc.

It's great to be good, but you gotta be a little lucky, too. With that pitching Wren rolled snake eyes. That, coupled with his overwhelming urge to overpay ****ty players in free agency and his winning personality, and - boom! - hello Coppalella.
Click to expand...

I would have loved to have seen statcast data on Hanson and beachy.
 
Enscheff said:
I would have loved to have seen statcast data on Hanson and beachy.
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Beachy especially. He seems like the type of guy that would have been unlocked with modern pitching analytics.

I constantly forget Tommy Hanson played for the Braves. I bought his stock super high.
 
For some reason I recall Nogowski playing against us this year and being extremely good?

Edit: Yes. He was 7-12 with two walks against us. And pitched in the finale of the series when they were down big- I think that is why I remember the name.
 
McCann'sCans said:
For some reason I recall Nogowski playing against us this year and being extremely good?

Edit: Yes. He was 7-12 with two walks against us. And pitched in the finale of the series when they were down big- I think that is why I remember the name.
Click to expand...

I'm a little surprised that he was only on the Giants' AA roster and eligible for the minor league phase of the draft.
 
zitothebrave said:
The issue i have with your method is it's agnostic of other factors.

In 2008 Andrus was 19 and Feliz was 19. They were young.

The issue I have with the trade was the same back then, we weren't that good of a team. I know we were "only" 5 games back or something. But the team was a mess. Andruw was falling apart, aside from Chipped the team was a bunch of average to above average hitters who didn't play much defense. At least in the infield. Chipper was never a stellar defender by this point in his career it was certainly true. Renteria was an offensive first Shortstop, Kelly Johnson wasn't great defensively, that's not great. Coupled with out pitching staff which was Smoltz, Hudson and a slew of bums.

Just to reiterate guys who started for us that year. Chuck James, Buddy Carlyle, Kyle Davies, Jo Jo Reyes, Lance Cormier, Mark Redmon, Jeff Bennett, Anthony Lerew, The only ones of those who gave us a positive value were James and Bennett. That says something bad.

And when we made that trade I wasn't really pissed at the rumored trade which was Harrison, Salty and Andrus, it was the inclusion of Feliz that was a dagger.

Can you imagine if instead of that trade we held those pieces and rolled into 2008 looking to make other deals. Salty had to go, because of McCann, but imagine a different world where instead of blowing the budget on Tex we tinker with a C/1B platoon while looking to trade Salty, or just straight up trade him for someone who can play 1B but isn't an elite talent.

Imagine a 2009 Atlanta Braves team with Andrus instead of Escobar, a solid kid like Harrison so we don't have to sign either Lowe or Kawakami, and Feliz added to that deadly bullpen with Soriano, Gonzalez, Moylan, Medlen, and O'Flaherty.

Or again just used those pieces more wisely in a trade. The issue was 2 fold for me. First there was no way Teixeira was sticking around like fools like Shanks were saying. Second this was a hubris trade by Scheurholz who wanted to reclaim glory, but seemingly forgot that this team wasn't that good the year before, with a team that was producing better. 2 of our 3 best players from the year before (McCann and Andruw) were having bad years. What we gained from better years at 2B, SS, RF and LF was minimal to the big losses in CF, C, and 1B Of course Tex would solve one of those issues, but that was it. 06 rotation was a mess and largely rolled into 07 with the same rotation. Didn't make any moves just kept rolling with James, Davies, etc.

THe Braves management of that era was so full of themselves, they shot the Franchise in the foot. The saving grace was that Heyward, Freeman, and Hanson were coming along
Click to expand...

Imagine if they'd kept players who weren't really that good? You're taking about holding on to Salty and Harrison like that would have changed anything.

Braves had Escobar and Andrelton at SS. They could always used another set up man so Feliz might have helped a little.

The rationale trade was pretty clear. Try to hit enough to win the pitching games that were winnable. Kind of a long shot but look what just won the World Series.
 
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