Official 2022 Offseason Moves Thread

Coredor said:
If we can’t get the money we need to give Ozuna a shot. You don’t throw away that much money and he still has ability. We owe the guy 45 milllion. Now if he assaults someone in the locker room then we would have a problem.
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The way I’ve heard it explained is that domestic violence is explicitly dealt with in the CBA. Serve your suspension time, and you’re back in clean standing. Since it’s spelled out, the other clauses such as the morality one don’t apply.

I suspect the Braves will save the bulk of his 2022 salary, and they will apply it to another bat. Then they are on the hook through the end of the deal. I also suspect Ozuna will have let himself get so out of shape by then he will be useless, and he will be cut loose anyways.

What a damn waste.
 
Enscheff said:
The way I’ve heard it explained is that domestic violence is explicitly dealt with in the CBA. Serve your suspension time, and you’re back in clean standing. Since it’s spelled out, the other clauses such as the morality one don’t apply.

I suspect the Braves will save the bulk of his 2022 salary, and they will apply it to another bat. Then they are on the hook through the end of the deal. I also suspect Ozuna will have let himself get so out of shape by then he will be useless, and he will be cut loose anyways.

What a damn waste.
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So basically that hand gesture they used last year that Marcel created, (Stirring the finger) was basically his way of saying he was gonna stir up some trouble for us.
 
Fans, teams, etc. seem to have a shorter memory on domestic violence incidents than this board seems to think they do.

If the Braves end up keeping Ozuna, there will be short-term fallout, but as long as he stays out of trouble it's not going to be a huge stain on the franchise in terms of public perception for years to come.

I'd be fine with cutting him loose, and in a perfect and just world that's what would happen. But given that the Braves would almost certainly have to pay for at least the final two years of his contract, they might as well get something in terms of on-field production for the $33MM minimum they will owe him, assuming he can produce positive value.
 
If Braves cant get full relief of the contract, then they might as well keep him. Maybe bad PR to some fans keeping him but he could still hit provided he's stayed in shape in the past year+
 
Well if we can still idolize Bobby Cox, then really no Brave's fan should hold moral judgement towards Ozuna. Let him serve his penalty and see if he can play still.. If you feel domestic abusers don't belong on this team, then hold that towards Bobby too.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Well if we can still idolize Bobby Cox, then really no Brave's fan should hold moral judgement towards Ozuna. Let him serve his penalty and see if he can play still.. If you feel domestic abusers don't belong on this team, then hold that towards Bobby too.
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Ozunas allegations at the outset were far and away more than Bobby’s.
 
Tapate50 said:
Ozunas allegations at the outset were far and away more than Bobby’s.
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no, the difference was in 95 MLB and, a lot of times, police would look the other way once the woman came back and said nothing happened, while her eye was black and blue.. MLB swept that under the rug and there is ZERO doubt in my mind that if that happened in today's time, he would have been gone immediately.

Again, crap happens, things get heated and sometimes guys hits girls. How one person wants to interrupt that and morally judge each is up to them.. but it shouldn't be based on how much success the offender has had.
 
50PoundHead said:
Likely so (and I'm certainly not defending Ozuna here), but what constitutes "morals" in the clause? Players get suspended for drug/alcohol issues and one could argue (it would be tenuous but since when does that prevent enterprising ambulance chasers--not you striker42--from making a legal argument) that drugs and alcohol are immoral and a team could terminate a contract based on that. Of course, the drug/alcohol aspect is part of the CBA so it's immaterial, but where does one draw the line of what would constitute a violation of a morals clause. I anticipate the domestic abuse issue will be part of the CBA discussions as it should be.
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The Braves get to make the decision whether to enforce the clause in every situation. Is there even a question that domestic battery carries a much greater stigma than drug or alcohol addiction in our society? I think the Braves have a very good chance of getting out of the contract, for less than face value, if they want to be done with Ozuna. Ozuna's choices are to take a buy-out or fight it and suffer through months of reporting on what happened that night and sports columnists opining about whether his conduct is sufficiently bad to warrant his contract being voided by a morals clause. Don't you just want to see the reaction to the sports writer that takes the position a little domestic violence is alright? Think about what that kind of public trial does to Ozuna's baseball future. If he wants to play again, he'd be way better served to take a percentage of his Braves contract in a buy-out and hit the open market.

It also stands to reason the Braves can't begin negotiating a buyout based upon the morals clause until after MLB issues its investigative findings.
 
Heyward said:
If Braves cant get full relief of the contract, then they might as well keep him. Maybe bad PR to some fans keeping him but he could still hit provided he's stayed in shape in the past year+
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Why? Wouldn't you gladly pay him $10 million spread out over 10 years to void the contract; avoid the locker room problems; and stigma damaging what should be positive stories coming off a World Series Championship.
 
OcalaBrave said:
The Braves get to make the decision whether to enforce the clause in every situation. Is there even a question that domestic battery carries a much greater stigma than drug or alcohol addiction in our society? I think the Braves have a very good chance of getting out of the contract, for less than face value, if they want to be done with Ozuna. Ozuna's choices are to take a buy-out or fight it and suffer through months of reporting on what happened that night and sports columnists opining about whether his conduct is sufficiently bad to warrant his contract being voided by a morals clause. Don't you just want to see the reaction to the sports writer that takes the position a little domestic violence is alright? Think about what that kind of public trial does to Ozuna's baseball future. If he wants to play again, he'd be way better served to take a percentage of his Braves contract in a buy-out and hit the open market.

It also stands to reason the Braves can't begin negotiating a buyout based upon the morals clause until after MLB issues its investigative findings.
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This seems like the most reasonable outcome.

Ozuna isn't going to willingly walk away from his contract, but he might very well take a negotiated settlement. I doubt this would be acceptable under the CBA, but on the other hand does the MLBPA want the publicity of defending a domestic abuser in the midst of a contentious negotiating process? They're already going to have roughly half the sports watching public seeing them as whiny millionaires arguing over frivolous issues. Do they really want the PR hit of being portrayed as on the side of wife beating/choking?
 
OcalaBrave said:
Why? Wouldn't you gladly pay him $10 million spread out over 10 years to void the contract; avoid the locker room problems; and stigma damaging what should be positive stories coming off a World Series Championship.
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Well, if we cant get relief on the deal, why not have him on the roster? He's an impact bat if he's stayed in shape. I dont think Ozuna would cause any locker room problems, now if he hit someone on the team, then thats a bigger ordeal but i dont think that would happen.
 
Heyward said:
Well, if we cant get relief on the deal, why not have him on the roster? He's an impact bat if he's stayed in shape. I dont think Ozuna would cause any locker room problems, now if he hit someone on the team, then thats a bigger ordeal but i dont think that would happen.
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If you can't get relief on the $54 million due him, I'm with you. You can't just eat $54 million.

I'd assume players' wives are close. Domestic violence involving a player's wife is bound to cause locker room issues.

I disagree with the last sentence. Two players can find themselves in a heated exchange one minute and friends 45 seconds later... even if it becomes physical. In addition, a locker room has an Alpha that can resolve those issues between players quickly and players that aren't good fits can be traded without a huge hit in perceived value. In contrast, a player that beats and chokes his wife is a bigger ordeal for team continuity, cannot be resolved by the Alpha in the locker room and loses all trade value.
 
OcalaBrave said:
If you can't get relief on the $54 million due him, I'm with you. You can't just eat $54 million.

I'd assume players' wives are close. Domestic violence involving a player's wife is bound to cause locker room issues.

I disagree with the last sentence. Two players can find themselves in a heated exchange one minute and friends 45 seconds later... even if it becomes physical. In addition, a locker room has an Alpha that can resolve those issues between players quickly and players that aren't good fits can be traded without a huge hit in perceived value. In contrast, a player that beats and chokes his wife is a bigger ordeal for team continuity, cannot be resolved by the Alpha in the locker room and loses all trade value.
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Just putting this out there. But we really don't even know exactly what happened in the situation. The choking was already disproven once the cops camera was reviewed. So we currently have no idea what he did or what even his wife did to him. This isn't meant to come off as accepting it domestic violence. Just don't know the details.
 
This actually makes me wonder about the whole "team chemistry" thing. Some of my analytically-inclined friends seem to think that it's utter bull****, especially since it's impossible to measure or quantify. Personally, I have a hard time believing that professional sports is the only place where it doesn't matter. I certainly hire for culture.

Gossip claims that the Braves teams of the 90s weren't all that close, and in some cases actually didn't like each other. The 2021 team seemed (cliché alert) to be more than the sum of its parts. The team seems to have genuinely loved each other, and said so. Maybe that closeness made a difference?

I'm not necessarily making that argument; I'm asking the question. If chemistry was, in fact, important, does that make you more likely to resign more of the deadline four outfielders than you might otherwise? And what does Ozuna do to that mix? I think I'd have a lot of conversations before I'd make that call.
 
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NYCBrave said:
Just putting this out there. But we really don't even know exactly what happened in the situation. The choking was already disproven once the cops camera was reviewed. So we currently have no idea what he did or what even his wife did to him. This isn't meant to come off as accepting it domestic violence. Just don't know the details.
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Amen.
 
I think the most likely outcome is Ozuna is so terrible when he comes back he won't be on the roster anyways, and the Braves will be paying regardless.
 
I know I am not Ozuna.... but for me $1m per year for the next 35 years (after suspension) would be an awesome retirement plan. It would not hurt the team appreciably, and Ozuna could, quietly disappear.
 
JohnAdcox said:
This actually makes me wonder about the whole "team chemistry" thing. Some of my analytically-inclined friends seem to think that it's utter bull****, especially since it's impossible to measure or quantify. Personally, I have a hard time believing that professional sports is the only place where it doesn't matter. I certainly hire for culture.

Gossip claims that the Braves teams of the 90s weren't all that close, and in some cases actually didn't like each other. The 2021 team seemed (cliché alert) to be more than the sum of its parts. The team seems to have genuinely loved each other, and said so. Maybe that closeness made a difference?

I'm not necessarily making that argument; I'm asking the question. If chemistry was, in fact, important, does that make you more likely to resign more of the deadline four outfielders than you might otherwise? And what does Ozuna do to that mix? I think I'd have a lot of conversations before I'd make that call.
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I don't think liking each other makes a team win it all, but I think not liking each other destroys a teams chance to win it all.
It is only natural to do more for the common good when you like the people that surround you. A selfish team doesn't win as much as a selfless team.
There are leaders that can make a team selfless even if they do not like each other... but Michael Jordan is the only one that immediately comes to mind. His intensity and passion for winning drove teammates to the brink, but they were terrified of not giving their all for the team. Much easier to get that buy in when you like each other.
 
I still like the idea of swapping Ozuna for Donaldson, even if it's extraordinarily unlikely to happen.
 
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