Official Fire Fredi Thread

Fans were fans of Jason Heyward because he didn't care. Now that Heyward is gone they also don't care for attending games.
 
i am a huge fan and i find it hard to go to the games

i won't go as often as i have in the past but i will still go to games

to expect people to spend money to see this product right now is crazy though. we did a rebuild for a future park (and i am not sure either the park or rebuild was needed) and the front office has been nothing but bull****ers the whole ****ing time

and through it all, we kept the worst part of our franchise, Fredi
 
clvclv said:
If that's truly the case, everyone ought to be attending church twice a week (if you're the religious type) and thanking God or singing Hart's praises on a daily basis for getting rid of the whole lot of them. If you think Bobby was the reason Chipper, Smoltz, Glavine, Maddux, et al gave their all every time they stepped on the field, you don't understand the game and what it takes to be a great player.

If players need the Manager to make them give a *hit about the game they're being paid bags of money to play, they don't deserve a cent (or to be in the league for that matter).

I'm guessing that those of you who feel it's the Manager's responsibility to get the players to play hard also had to have your parents watch over your shoulder to get you to do your homework. Of course it was "their fault" when you made Cs since they gave you the wrong answers and you figured the right ones out on your own.
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It is the managers responsibility to make sure the players aren't mailing it in and not just going through the motions. Fredi has failed twice in that regard.
 
Why does Fredi continue to get crushed, and Cox get a pass? Cox had more talent than any baseball organization has ever had together for a longer period of time in the free agency era and won one championship and yet he walks on water. Booby got lucky...any other market in the country and he probably gets the boot after failing in 1993 to win a championship. Cox had 4 HOFers, 10 + perennial all stars and a few one hit wonders. Give Fredi that talent and he does just as well. It's not about Fredi but the talent on the roster. Fredi is not going anywhere soon.
 
VirginiaBrave said:
Why does Fredi continue to get crushed, and Cox get a pass? Cox had more talent than any baseball organization has ever had together for a longer period of time in the free agency era and won one championship and yet he walks on water. Booby got lucky...any other market in the country and he probably gets the boot after failing in 1993 to win a championship. Cox had 4 HOFers, 10 + perennial all stars and a few one hit wonders. Give Fredi that talent and he does just as well. It's not about Fredi but the talent on the roster. Fredi is not going anywhere soon.
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Bobby gets a pass because we were always in the playoffs - and frankly, I think playoffs are a crapshoot.

He also gets a pass because almost every former player LOVED him, and say they worked harder for him than anyone else.

For the Fredi defenders, what does he do well?
 
sturg33 said:
Bobby gets a pass because we were always in the playoffs - and frankly, I think playoffs are a crapshoot.

He also gets a pass because almost every former player LOVED him, and say they worked harder for him than anyone else.

For the Fredi defenders, what does he do well?
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Exactly. Cox had his negative moments, but you could always point to things he did well and players LOVED playing for him and it made it much easier for JS. No supporter of Fredi ever has anything good to point to. They just insult Cox or insult the poster because how could we possibly know anything about managing, etc. He's a terrible manager. One of the worst in baseball. It's a joke he survived 2011, let alone STILL be the guy in 2015.
 
Dalyn said:
Exactly. Cox had his negative moments, but you could always point to things he did well and players LOVED playing for him and it made it much easier for JS. No supporter of Fredi ever has anything good to point to. They just insult Cox or insult the poster because how could we possibly know anything about managing, etc. He's a terrible manager. One of the worst in baseball. It's a joke he survived 2011, let alone STILL be the guy in 2015.
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Yeah! Your non-stop whining, bitching and complaining really Makes A Difference. "My team lost yesterday." Boo fricking hoo. "Let me vent my frustration on a message board and Twitter!"
 
At the end of the day, Bobby still failed, there was no excuse for that using the same standard that Gonzalez is being held to. The simple truth is this team has not been a legit WS contender since Glavine became a Met. As payroll dwindled so has the talent and has the results. 2010 might have been the exception had not everybody gotten hurt at the end. Again, if Fredi had four HOF players he would look just as good. Fredi has a job until at least 2018, y'all just gonna have to get used to it...
 
sturg33 said:
Bobby gets a pass because we were always in the playoffs - and frankly, I think playoffs are a crapshoot.

He also gets a pass because almost every former player LOVED him, and say they worked harder for him than anyone else.

For the Fredi defenders, what does he do well?
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he provides excellent message board fodder for people who have never managed at the major league level, but somehow know they would do it much better.
 
mossy said:
he provides excellent message board fodder for people who have never managed at the major league level, but somehow know they would do it much better.
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Again - with this rationale, no manager can ever be criticized from anyone who has never managed... And also - no manager can ever make a mistake because they know more than us
 
VirginiaBrave said:
At the end of the day, Bobby still failed, there was no excuse for that using the same standard that Gonzalez is being held to. The simple truth is this team has not been a legit WS contender since Glavine became a Met. As payroll dwindled so has the talent and has the results. 2010 might have been the exception had not everybody gotten hurt at the end. Again, if Fredi had four HOF players he would look just as good. Fredi has a job until at least 2018, y'all just gonna have to get used to it...
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Still would love to hear what he does well as a manager
 
VirginiaBrave said:
Why does Fredi continue to get crushed, and Cox get a pass? Cox had more talent than any baseball organization has ever had together for a longer period of time in the free agency era and won one championship and yet he walks on water. Booby got lucky...any other market in the country and he probably gets the boot after failing in 1993 to win a championship. Cox had 4 HOFers, 10 + perennial all stars and a few one hit wonders. Give Fredi that talent and he does just as well. It's not about Fredi but the talent on the roster. Fredi is not going anywhere soon.
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This is absolutely ridiculous. We made the playoffs nearly every year. Yes, he had some talent to work with...and yes there was stability within the organization, but I'm not gonna be clouded by a few playoff losses and overlook the entire body of work.

I've said it many times before, the Yanks had Mo and we didn't. Turn the tables around and we got multiple World Series. How many games did we lose late in the games due to the bullpen? Many.

And if anything, I think we overachieved in the playoffs during the beginning of the run. We had young talent with some vets, but did anyone think we'd have a chance let alone be in the World Series in 91 and 92? Remove a few fluke plays or an additional hit and hindsight looks completely different.

And we did win a World Series. And if Wohlers doesn't hang that slider to Leyritz we got another. Our window to dominate was from 95-99. The yanks had Mo and we didn't. The Yanks valued putting together a viable bullpen built around Wetteland and Rivera, whereas JS and company expect Bobby and Leo to put together a pen of misfits, youngsters, and has-bens in which they managed to put those guys in areas to succeed in the regular season but weren't enough to get it done on the biggest stage. If we had Mo in 99 we win Game 1 of the WS and change the dynamic of that series. Yes, we were that close to rewriting the history books and coming away with multiple ships. We also weren't necessarily built for the postseason with more finesse starting pitchers which generally are less successful in October.

Our window closed or was very close to be closed at the beginning of the millennium. Our once dominant started were still good but past their prime, our offensive teams were unbalanced and built around a few players, and it was too late on managements part to focus on building a dominant blackens of the bullpen with Smoltz, which in turn also weakened our starting staff. There were also a number of mismanagement mishaps during this time frame by JS that I'm not going to allude at this time. This ultimately less to less postseason success.

And yet Bobby still managed to put it all together and put a winning product on the field and have a chance. Year after year nearly half the roster was turned over. He won in a number of different ways with a number of different teams...speed, power, great starting pitching, average starting pitching, good bullpens, terrible bullpens, great offensive teams and average offensive teams. Set rosters or platoon situations. It didn't matter.

And ask yourself this? Did you ever feel like we were gonna win anything with a past his prime Maddux, Russ Ortiz, and Mike Hampton as your top starters? I sure as hell didn't, yet there we were with the best record in baseball. Many of those teams over relyed on one, albeit great, offensive player in Chipper.

Bobby won with young and old. He won with Gant, Justice, Glavine, Avery, and Smoltz when they were babies. He won with a veteran laden team. He won with the next round of Baby Braves. He won with Fred McGriff and Andres Galarraga as his first baseman, and he won with Julio and Matt Franco.

He almost won a WS with injury decimated teams (1999). He got to the postseason in 2010 with backups to the backups in many cases.

Bobby showed great leadership. Was he the greatest in game secession maker at times? No. Did he show favoritism at times to veterans, sometimes overlooking a more talented less experienced player, yes. But it worked more often than not. And he got the best out of those players.

We were lucky in hindsight to have a manager like Bobby. He commanded respect of his players. Players loved playing for him. It didn't matter if you were Chipper Jones or Steve Sisco, one thing is for certain you knew when the Braves took the field they were gonna play hard and compete. Did they always win, no but they competed and scrapped and clawed and tryed to do whatever it took to get a win. And they had fun doing it. Can the same be said if Fredi, no? Most of these recent teams, and some if them were extremely talented looked dead, listless, and indifferent. Oh well, tip your cap and get them tomorrow.

Not one former player complained about playing for Bobby. The clubhouse was under his control. We had malcontents like Deion, Sheffield, and Bonilla and there wasn't one peep of issues with them. They loved playing for him. We've seen a number of former players in Linebrink and Hudson among others that have been critical of Fredi. And those guys are veterans.

Bobby held together a team with distractions like the Rocker situation. Bobby stood up for his troops no matter what, even if he took the fault. Players came here, and players stayed here for less, just to play for the man. Can the same be said amount Fredi, no?

Bobby molded individuals into a team. And more often than not a damn good one. No matter the talent or the strengths or weaknesses of the team, or the names in the back of the jersey, he got the best out of them. We were lucky. Bobby didn't miss a play, he didn't miss a beat. You think he would have missed Medlens elbow discomfort the pitch before he blew it out due to reading a baseball prospectus? No. Would Bobby have left a young pitcher in after injuring his knee to get another out, No. Would Bobby have given a struggling player a day off here or there, or give a guy coming off an injury an extra day or 2 to make sure they were 100 percent, yes. I betcha Bobby goes to his ace reliever in an elimination game. In fact he did it many times before. If anything sometimes he relied on his alpha dogs a little too much.

And to me, it's team building and leadership that is much more important than in game manage my or adjustments. Those leaders get the best out of players. Bobby was that guy. Coach K is that guy. So is Greg Popovich and Billicick. Phil Jackson was that guy.

It's absolutely absurd to compare Bobby to Fredi, let a lone complain about our shortcomings during Bobby's tenure and compare to that of Fredi's ineptitude, shortcomings, and failures.
 
sturg33 said:
I think you're proving all of our points. Thanks
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Changing managers just for the sake of it does nothing. Fredi has not done anything to be fired for. An organization built on stability when the talent level is brought up to match works best. Give me the guy that bleeds Braves over a hired gun brought in for pub like Chuck Tanner was. You folks that think Cox was so much better particularly at pen management have forgotten Mike Remlinger, Mike Stanton, Greg McMichael all of whom Cox ran into the ground. Not to mention Avery being allowed to pitch hurt like JT today. Cox was not immune to these mistakes. Or how about his refusal to turn guys loose on the basepaths even when he had speed? Point is they are more alike than dissimiliar.
 
Millwood1Hitter said:
This is absolutely ridiculous. We made the playoffs nearly every year. Yes, he had some talent to work with...and yes there was stability within the organization, but I'm not gonna be clouded by a few playoff losses and overlook the entire body of work.

I've said it many times before, the Yanks had Mo and we didn't. Turn the tables around and we got multiple World Series. How many games did we lose late in the games due to the bullpen? Many.

And if anything, I think we overachieved in the playoffs during the beginning of the run. We had young talent with some vets, but did anyone think we'd have a chance let alone be in the World Series in 91 and 92? Remove a few fluke plays or an additional hit and hindsight looks completely different.

And we did win a World Series. And if Wohlers doesn't hang that slider to Leyritz we got another. Our window to dominate was from 95-99. The yanks had Mo and we didn't. The Yanks valued putting together a viable bullpen built around Wetteland and Rivera, whereas JS and company expect Bobby and Leo to put together a pen of misfits, youngsters, and has-bens in which they managed to put those guys in areas to succeed in the regular season but weren't enough to get it done on the biggest stage. If we had Mo in 99 we win Game 1 of the WS and change the dynamic of that series. Yes, we were that close to rewriting the history books and coming away with multiple ships. We also weren't necessarily built for the postseason with more finesse starting pitchers which generally are less successful in October.

Our window closed or was very close to be closed at the beginning of the millennium. Our once dominant started were still good but past their prime, our offensive teams were unbalanced and built around a few players, and it was too late on managements part to focus on building a dominant blackens of the bullpen with Smoltz, which in turn also weakened our starting staff. There were also a number of mismanagement mishaps during this time frame by JS that I'm not going to allude at this time. This ultimately less to less postseason success.

And yet Bobby still managed to put it all together and put a winning product on the field and have a chance. Year after year nearly half the roster was turned over. He won in a number of different ways with a number of different teams...speed, power, great starting pitching, average starting pitching, good bullpens, terrible bullpens, great offensive teams and average offensive teams. Set rosters or platoon situations. It didn't matter.

And ask yourself this? Did you ever feel like we were gonna win anything with a past his prime Maddux, Russ Ortiz, and Mike Hampton as your top starters? I sure as hell didn't, yet there we were with the best record in baseball. Many of those teams over relyed on one, albeit great, offensive player in Chipper.

Bobby won with young and old. He won with Gant, Justice, Glavine, Avery, and Smoltz when they were babies. He won with a veteran laden team. He won with the next round of Baby Braves. He won with Fred McGriff and Andres Galarraga as his first baseman, and he won with Julio and Matt Franco.

He almost won a WS with injury decimated teams (1999). He got to the postseason in 2010 with backups to the backups in many cases.

Bobby showed great leadership. Was he the greatest in game secession maker at times? No. Did he show favoritism at times to veterans, sometimes overlooking a more talented less experienced player, yes. But it worked more often than not. And he got the best out of those players.

We were lucky in hindsight to have a manager like Bobby. He commanded respect of his players. Players loved playing for him. It didn't matter if you were Chipper Jones or Steve Sisco, one thing is for certain you knew when the Braves took the field they were gonna play hard and compete. Did they always win, no but they competed and scrapped and clawed and tryed to do whatever it took to get a win. And they had fun doing it. Can the same be said if Fredi, no? Most of these recent teams, and some if them were extremely talented looked dead, listless, and indifferent. Oh well, tip your cap and get them tomorrow.

Not one former player complained about playing for Bobby. The clubhouse was under his control. We had malcontents like Deion, Sheffield, and Bonilla and there wasn't one peep of issues with them. They loved playing for him. We've seen a number of former players in Linebrink and Hudson among others that have been critical of Fredi. And those guys are veterans.

Bobby held together a team with distractions like the Rocker situation. Bobby stood up for his troops no matter what, even if he took the fault. Players came here, and players stayed here for less, just to play for the man. Can the same be said amount Fredi, no?

Bobby molded individuals into a team. And more often than not a damn good one. No matter the talent or the strengths or weaknesses of the team, or the names in the back of the jersey, he got the best out of them. We were lucky. Bobby didn't miss a play, he didn't miss a beat. You think he would have missed Medlens elbow discomfort the pitch before he blew it out due to reading a baseball prospectus? No. Would Bobby have left a young pitcher in after injuring his knee to get another out, No. Would Bobby have given a struggling player a day off here or there, or give a guy coming off an injury an extra day or 2 to make sure they were 100 percent, yes. I betcha Bobby goes to his ace reliever in an elimination game. In fact he did it many times before. If anything sometimes he relied on his alpha dogs a little too much.

And to me, it's team building and leadership that is much more important than in game manage my or adjustments. Those leaders get the best out of players. Bobby was that guy. Coach K is that guy. So is Greg Popovich and Billicick. Phil Jackson was that guy.

It's absolutely absurd to compare Bobby to Fredi, let a lone complain about our shortcomings during Bobby's tenure and compare to that of Fredi's ineptitude, shortcomings, and failures.
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The coach is my boss. Nothing more, but my performance makes him. Its not the other way around. If I do well he gets the credit. But I as the player do the work and its my responsiblity to play the game the right way. That is the biggest crock at the big league level that a manager somehow makes more of a player than what he is.

And we got swept in 1999. That's not almost winning it all. And for another thing you take Maddux, Glavine, and Smoltz off those teams and they are average at best. They were the trump cards.
 
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