Official official offseason thread

zbhargrove said:
It's not that they were deemed "too expensive" it was deemed that they weren't "worth it" which they aren't. And its more the years than amounts I think that's pretty clear. You can say its the market all you want... it's still stupid and will hamstring other teams for years. Just because the market dictated the pricing doesn't mean you should pay the prices. I'm glad AA isn't an idiot. Also how are we penny pinchers when we are currently sitting at 6th in payroll?
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How do you define worth though. Is acuna worth 100 million. When you answer yes explain why. Because it is relative to what others are being paid. So is turner worth 25+ million for the next 11 years. The only way o answer that is relative to others. If dansby is getting 25 million for 7 years does turner now seem more worth it. If we have to pay Andrus 15 million for 3 years cause we need a SS next year. Does Turner look more worthy.

Just something to think about.
 
zbhargrove said:
It's not that they were deemed "too expensive" it was deemed that they weren't "worth it" which they aren't. And it’s more the years than amounts I think that's pretty clear. You can say it’s the market all you want... it's still stupid and will hamstring other teams for years. Just because the market dictated the pricing doesn't mean you should pay the prices. I'm glad AA isn't an idiot. Also how are we penny pinchers when we are currently sitting at 6th in payroll?
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Semantics. But ok these players “aren’t worth it.” I agree. They’re not. But none of these players are. And none of the players next year will be either. The market has driven prices up and they’re not suddenly going to come down. So what do you do? I’m being serious. What do you do when you have a hole at ss and lf and your options are to bargain hunt and likely overpay for a shmuck, way overpay for a above average to super star player, or plug the hole with someone from the farm who may or may not be ready? At some point you will have to spend. It’s inevitable. And if everyone “isn’t worth it,” what do you do?

Back to my car analogy, you’re going to need to buy a car at some point. So where do you spend your money?
 
brian22 said:
Yep. I feel like I’ve seen all of this teenage message-board drama before, only this time we’re a top six or seven payroll. SMH.
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And we will probably be a top 6 or 7 team too. But what does that have to do with anything being said. Wanting to fill clear holes in our lineup with players other than guys that baseball reference even says ‘WHO’. Then I think that is a legit discussion. I mean you don’t have to be a simpleton and think there is ‘only winning the offseason or bust’ to realize there are different paths to success and it is ok to question or debate which path to take. No one here has called for AA to be fired or lynched. Just some off season banter between fans.
 
bravesnumberone said:
I mean it in the sense that AA probably believes that there are several guys in between the star shortstop and crazy Conforto prices and Jordan freaking Luplow that would improve this roster, but it's becoming apparent that the luxury tax threshold is keeping us from adding even those. The penalty money will be chump change compared to the money the team will continue to rake in. So yes, I consider us cheap asses for not going ahead and cutting Ozuna and hoping against hope that a Rosario/Luplow platoon will work.
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I mean we don't know if a Luplow/Rosario platoon is the plan for LF... its certainly an option but I'm not willing to bet our OF is set. I think Luplow is more of a 4th/5th OFer type who could even be cut if a better option comes along.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
How do you define worth though. Is acuna worth 100 million. When you answer yes explain why. Because it is relative to what others are being paid. So is turner worth 25+ million for the next 11 years. The only way o answer that is relative to others. If dansby is getting 25 million for 7 years does turner now seem more worth it. If we have to pay Andrus 15 million for 3 years cause we need a SS next year. Does Turner look more worthy.

Just something to think about.
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Saving money by not paying someone who will actually produce at an elite level and then turning around and spreading that money over 2-3 below average guys and hoping they produce in a platoon is even more dangerous. We can never assume health with anyone, superstar or bench player. So assuming health, I’d rather invest in one player who I know what his floor is vs handing out that same amount to 2-3 guys and hoping one or more of them hit close to their ceiling. And this is further exacerbated when the rest of our lineup is set. Just splurge to put us over the top.

I’ll be really curious to see what the next “big contract” we give out bc at some point AA is going to have to sign someone.
 
zbhargrove said:
I mean we don't know if a Luplow/Rosario platoon is the plan for LF... its certainly an option but I'm not willing to bet our OF is set. I think Luplow is more of a 4th/5th OFer type who could even be cut if a better option comes along.
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Who are we going with then? Every viable outfield option is off the board and our system is barren. We don’t have anymore assets to trade. And the ones that we do have, AA doesn’t want to further flush our farm.
 
zbhargrove said:
I mean we don't know if a Luplow/Rosario platoon is the plan for LF... its certainly an option but I'm not willing to bet our OF is set. I think Luplow is more of a 4th/5th OFer type who could even be cut if a better option comes along.
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Which is all I’ve been saying while getting accused of being a teenager who’s upset we didn’t “win the offseason.” Who is the better option out there that you think is “worth it?”
 
tululush said:
Who are we going with then? Every viable outfield option is off the board and our system is barren. We don’t have anymore assets to trade. And the ones that we do have, AA doesn’t want to further flush our farm.
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Saying we don't have assets to trade is silly. Anderson, Grissom, Elder, etc... could all easily be traded and have decent value if AA finds the right deal. If Grissom is traded you can still easily use Arcia and/or Andrus (or someone similar). We don't know if AA will trade anymore players or not and its ignorant to assume he wouldn't if the right deal presented itself. You are just dead set in being absolutely certain about things you have no way to be absolutely certain about and its silly.
 
You can’t call every single FA contract “too expensive”. If they are all “too expensive” then that means the price for FAs has gone up, and so must your definition of “too expensive”. If you saved $60k for a new truck, you can’t complain about trucks being “too expensive” when every single one sells for $90k. It means you didn’t budget according to the actual market value of a new truck.

All FA options that matter are now off the board, and the Braves are stuck with Rosario/Luplow in LF and Ozuna/Murphy at DH. They may grab a 2 win SS, but that’s not a real upgrade over Arcia. Barring a trade, the Braves have a question mark at SS and replacement level players at LF/DH.

Not ideal, but this is still a Top 5 team in MLB.
 
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bravesnumberone said:
Which is all I’ve been saying while getting accused of being a teenager who’s upset we didn’t “win the offseason.” Who is the better option out there that you think is “worth it?”
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Honestly I don't know who's out there but I've seen time and time again AA bring someone random in that no one was talking about that ended up being a perfect fit. We just don't know... me or you or anyone here. Its just silly to get emotional about it when we still have a top 3 roster in the MLB and there's still half an off season plus ST left.
 
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Enscheff said:
You can’t call every single FA contract “too expensive”. If they are all “too expensive” then that means the price for FAs has gone up, and so must your definition of “too expensive”.

All FA options that matter are now off the board, and the Braves are stuck with Rosario/Luplow in LF and Ozuna/Murphy at DH. They may grab a 2 win SS, but that’s not a real upgrade over Arcia. Barring a trade, the Braves have a question mark at SS and replacement level players at LF/DH.

Not ideal, but this is still a Top 5 team in MLB.
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As I said... I don't think its the too expensive thing to me... I think its the years. There is certainly such thing as too many years. Conforto would have been fine but AA won't ever give an opt out... for better or for worse... if they were insisting on an opt out, it wasn't going to happen.
 
zbhargrove said:
As I said... I don't think its the too expensive thing to me... I think its the years. There is certainly such thing as too many years. Conforto would have been fine but AA won't ever give an opt out... for better or for worse... if they were insisting on an opt out, it wasn't going to happen.
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Ok….

You can’t say every single FA contract is “too many years”. If they are all “too many years” then that means the price for FAs has gone up, and so must your definition of “too many years”.

I wouldn’t have wanted to give Conforto 2 years either, but that’s the market for FAs. If AA misread that market and didn’t have the funds to shop in that market, that’s his fault. If everything is “too much” then it means you don’t have enough wallet to shop there.

Now we get to watch Rosario, Ozuna and Luplow take ~1000+ PAs while competing against a $400M Mets team.
 
If we aren’t going to extend Fried (whether he isn’t interested or whether we won’t give him the $30M per it would likely take), and we aren’t willing to pursue other aces, we have to be careful about how many of our pitchers we trade. At the same time I think we are way overvaluing some of these guys. Elder is AAAA filler, and Anderson needs to demonstrate he can throw a third pitch with success. I’ve read probably two dozen or more Reynolds trade proposals that start with Anderson, and more than half of those contain Elder, too. I think Pittsburgh’s starting point would be Wright, and that’s probably why Reynolds isn’t a Brave. AA has supposedly been after him for two years.
 
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Enscheff said:
Ok….

You can’t say every single FA contract is “too many years”. If they are all “too many years” then that means the price for FAs has gone up, and so must your definition of “too many years”.

I wouldn’t have wanted to give Conforto 2 years either, but that’s the market for FAs. If AA misread that market and didn’t have the funds to shop in that market, that’s his fault. If everything is “too much” then it means you don’t have enough wallet to shop there.
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I'm mainly speaking about the difference makers at SS for too many years.
 
bravesnumberone said:
Giants gave Taylor Rogers 3/33. Good Christ....well they're spending their Correa money.
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Joins his twin brother Tyler with the Giants. Seems like a lot of money for a guy with negative bWAR last season. He was solid with the Twins, but he kind of stunk things up last year and he just turned 32.
 
zbhargrove said:
I'm mainly speaking about the difference makers at SS for too many years.
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Ok…

I wouldn’t have wanted to give those SSs a decade or more either, but we can’t say every single contract is “too many years”. The contracts aren’t “too many years” if every single one was “too many years”.

Just like you wouldn’t walk into a Ferrari dealership with $20k and complain about things being “too expensive”, you don’t walk into the 2022/2023 FA market complaining about “too expensive” or “too many years”. AA simply can’t afford to shop in this market, and that’s on him for misunderstanding the market conditions, or spending money elsewhere (like Rosario and Ozuna).

So now we get to watch Rosario, Ozuna and someone named Luplow take 1000+ PAs while chasing a title. That’s on AA, and nobody else is at fault.
 
Enscheff said:
Ok….

You can’t say every single FA contract is “too many years”. If they are all “too many years” then that means the price for FAs has gone up, and so must your definition of “too many years”.

I wouldn’t have wanted to give Conforto 2 years either, but that’s the market for FAs. If AA misread that market and didn’t have the funds to shop in that market, that’s his fault. If everything is “too much” then it means you don’t have enough wallet to shop there.

Now we get to watch Rosario, Ozuna and Luplow take ~1000+ PAs while competing against a $400M Mets team.
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Correct. The market is what the market is. When people complain that these guys aren't worth it, I think it's more about how one views the value and importance of sports and other entertainment within the entirety of the cosmos. If a bunch of rich guys want to hand out big bucks to their employees, it may seem ridiculous to many but it is what it is.
 
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