CrimeDog247
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Couldn’t that be said for every Braves team in the 90’s? Most Braves teams have been known for that.
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Couldn’t that be said for every Braves team in the 90’s? Most Braves teams have been known for that.
It’s really as simple as this:
Most trade proposals on most message boards consist of a fan wanting a player from another team, and trying to construct a package to acquire that player without giving up anything they consider valuable, regardless of what the other team wants/needs.
That’s how you end up reading trade scenarios where the Braves get Sale for Tyrell Jenkins.
"this player fits the Braves' needs, so i want to trade for him." the thought goes as far as that and stops.
They're not likely going to be able to retain Bauer next winter - maybe they can add someone at Castellanos' salary level while flipping Senzel for controllable pitching. They're liable to lose both Bauer and DeSclafani following this year, Lodolo probably won't be ready at the very beginning of 2021, and if they were able to add Castellanos on a 3 year deal they'd certainly be set up to compete in the Central for the next several years.
As for it being a rumor limited to this board, unfortunately that's just not the case - a Senzel trade has been mentioned multiple times by multiple sources on both the network and the network channel on XM. I haven't heard the Braves linked to him in those instances, but the "rumor" isn't a Chop Country creation.
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The only thing I can think of is that Senzel is a 3b by trade and the Reds have 3b already locked down with Suarez and they just signed Akiyama for CF, which is where he spent pretty much all of 2019. But it seems people don't fully appreciate Senzel's position flexibility and how valuable that is (along with his cost) to a team like the Reds. I mean he was slightly worse than league average defensively in his first meaningful experience in CF. Certainly you would expect him to be able to slide to a corner OF spot and provide at least league average defense there. He also has experience at 2b and could play SS in a pinch.
All of that equals up to a pretty valuable piece and not someone the Reds are likely to move for unproven prospects. More likely, if he was actually available, they would be looking for a major upgrade of an already proven player. Someone like Corey Seagar or Francisco Lindor.
Why could they not afford to retain Bauer but could afford Castellanos for 3 years at market rates? That makes no sense. And with Gray and Castillo as 3+ WAR pitchers under control for awhile, they don't have to make big additions to their pitching staff to be competitive.
As for rumors of his availability, they are almost entirely tied to major stars like Corey Seagar or Francisco Lindor. It's extremely doubtful that he's "available" in the traditional sense.
The answer is... It is pretty well known that the Braves wanted to draft him, he plays a position of need, the Reds have other guys that play his best positions... and he has enough surplus value to potentially trade to fill several other needs for an up and coming team.
Not saying it will happen, or is realistic, but lets not pretend that it is ridiculous just because some on the board don't like it.
I seriously doubt the Braves want to be the team that gives up that haul, but there is some logic to it.
Not saying it will happen, or is realistic, but lets not pretend that it is ridiculous just because some on the board don't like it.
I seriously doubt the Braves want to be the team that gives up that haul, but there is some logic to it.
i don't think it has anything to do with people "not liking it." i think almost everyone would be in favor of acquiring Senzel. there's just no indication the Reds would trade him. he can play a few positions, so he isn't blocked, and he's a top prospect. very few teams would be thinking of trading him.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Jim Bowden said this about Arenado fits, Braves here:
The Braves are clearly one of the best fits for an Arenado trade — more than most teams — because of their deep farm system. The Rockies would love to have a package of two or three of the Braves’ top prospects, like pitchers Ian Anderson and Kyle Wright and outfielders Christian Pache and Drew Waters. But that’s just not going to happen. The Braves are playing the long game, and they want to keep their loaded farm system so they can compete for a World Series title for the next 5-7 years. Trading multiple top prospects that they control for six years for a singular superstar player they would control for just two doesn’t fit their blueprint.
However, a deal could still materialize, because the Braves do have a wide variety of players at both the major- and minor-league levels they could package for Arenado — starting with third baseman Austin Riley, who despite a disappointing rookie season still profiles as a future 30-40 home run bat in the class of a Troy Glaus type third baseman. The Braves also have a bevy of young pitchers at all levels and could offer some combination of right-handers Bryse Wilson, Touki Toussaint and Jasseel De La Cruz or southpaw Kyle Muller to get a deal done. The Braves also have depth at catcher and could part with either Shea Langeliers or William Contreras. There is just too much depth here to not think a deal could get done, even without Pache, Anderson and Waters being a part of a package.
The Braves did an excellent job in landing left fielder Marcell Ozuna on a 1-year, $18-million deal, so they don’t have any urgency to make a run at Arenado. The Ozuna deal also doesn’t block top outfield prospects Pache and Waters, who both should be ready to join Ronald Acuña Jr. in their outfield in 2021. If Riley has a solid first half of the season and can increase his trade value from where it is today, the Braves and Rockies could revisit Arenado trade talks come July, with Riley and two pitching prospects not named Anderson, and the making of a deal could be real. The Braves certainly will have room on their payroll for Arenado in the second half of 2020 — and more importantly, in 2021 and beyond — with Ozuna, Cole Hamels and Nick Markakis all coming off their books at the end of this year.
The Braves are clearly one of the best fits for an Arenado trade — more than most teams — because of their deep farm system. The Rockies would love to have a package of two or three of the Braves’ top prospects, like pitchers Ian Anderson and Kyle Wright and outfielders Christian Pache and Drew Waters. But that’s just not going to happen. The Braves are playing the long game, and they want to keep their loaded farm system so they can compete for a World Series title for the next 5-7 years. Trading multiple top prospects that they control for six years for a singular superstar player they would control for just two doesn’t fit their blueprint.
However, a deal could still materialize, because the Braves do have a wide variety of players at both the major- and minor-league levels they could package for Arenado — starting with third baseman Austin Riley, who despite a disappointing rookie season still profiles as a future 30-40 home run bat in the class of a Troy Glaus type third baseman. The Braves also have a bevy of young pitchers at all levels and could offer some combination of right-handers Bryse Wilson, Touki Toussaint and Jasseel De La Cruz or southpaw Kyle Muller to get a deal done. The Braves also have depth at catcher and could part with either Shea Langeliers or William Contreras. There is just too much depth here to not think a deal could get done, even without Pache, Anderson and Waters being a part of a package.
The Braves did an excellent job in landing left fielder Marcell Ozuna on a 1-year, $18-million deal, so they don’t have any urgency to make a run at Arenado. The Ozuna deal also doesn’t block top outfield prospects Pache and Waters, who both should be ready to join Ronald Acuña Jr. in their outfield in 2021. If Riley has a solid first half of the season and can increase his trade value from where it is today, the Braves and Rockies could revisit Arenado trade talks come July, with Riley and two pitching prospects not named Anderson, and the making of a deal could be real. The Braves certainly will have room on their payroll for Arenado in the second half of 2020 — and more importantly, in 2021 and beyond — with Ozuna, Cole Hamels and Nick Markakis all coming off their books at the end of this year.
Several factors likely wound up making the Castellanos deal more attractive/affordable than trying to get in a bidding war for Bauer next winter - lower AAV, shorter term, competition for their services, the fact that Castellanos' subpar defense won't be nearly as exposed in that tiny park, and the fact that they'd still have other pieces to move to try and add controllable pitching without dealing Senzel if they decided to make a deal that wasn't on the blockbuster level you mention.
They could easily make Senzel their full-time LF and deal other OF pieces - if they were to go back to the Indians and offer up Winker and Aquino they'd likely be able to land themselves another impact SP to step in when Bauer walks plus pick up a draft pick.
Southcack77
Well-known member
Sure, ultimately lineup construction has very little to do with outcomes and there is very little difference in the expected outcomes of an optimized lineup and a bad one.
Doesn't mean you should not optimize your lineup, but it's not something that is going to stop you from winning. 3-6 is a monster there. You've cost yourself a few at bats for some of your better hitters, but you've also got a lineup that is a lot of trouble at the bottom who figures to hit with guys on base. It'd be better if they got to do that one more at bat a game, but it's still pretty formidable.
zbhargrove
Well-known member
For what its worth, Heyman is now reporting that the Reds are now considering trading Senzel
zbhargrove
Well-known member
The Rockies' front office must be some kind of special dumb. It was their idea for Arenado's opt out? How stupid is that??
Tapate50
Well-known member
And we were hot on him for that draft weren't we?
I'm not sure what any of that has to do with trading Senzel and keeping Bauer, as you mentioned one was tied to the other in your original post, only to completely go the opposite way in this post. The entire point was that there is no reason to assume they could afford Castellanos and not Bauer, especially considering Bauer's stated desire to take shorter deals at a higher AAV. Even still, unless he is strongly in consideration for the CYA this year, he's looking at Zach Wheeler money tops on a long term deal. There simply isn't anymore likelihood that they could keep afford to keep him at such rates than there was that they could afford Castellanos at market rates.
i think this type of thing has been floated out there for a while on him. i could see it in a deal for, say, Lindor. not for a bunch of prospects, no matter how highly thought of.
Heyward
<B>Voted Worst Poster <br>'13, '14, '15 (Co-Winner
Castellanos is only 27, so it's not terrible. But i think AA wanted whichever one would take the 1 year deal.
Well, you responded to the least important point I made... I was just listing the reasons his name keeps coming up. The most important is that he could bring players in trade who could fill their remaining gaps.
I agree, not likely to happen... because the Braves are unlikely to be the team to give up what the Reds would need in return (which would be huge). Not because he could not be traded. Anyone is available if the haul is big enough.