Offseason Hot Stove 2024-25 Thread

Before the invention of TJS these injuries were always career ending. Now they aren’t. Any improvement in the treatment that improves the overall outcomes is a step forward.

I am guessing that, in the long run, the improved outcomes from this will be nearly as impactful as TJS was to begin with.

While there is still a lot to learn about the long term benefits of this, the results are encouraging.. I choose to be optimistic, rather than poo pooing it.
 
Enscheff said:
It is. He’s had his UCL repaired twice. If it wasn’t nearly as significant the recovery time wouldn’t be over a year.

Anyone claiming there isn’t real risk he won’t come back because “it’s not a TJS” is just sticking their head in the sand.
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I don't think anyone should discount the risk of relying on Strider this year. Assuming he comes back it is unreasonable to expect him to return to his ace level.

That being said while both repair the UCL the Internal Brace and TJS seem to be 2 fairly different procedures. TJS involves creating creating a new ligament using wrist tendons. Internal Brace repairs the existing ligament by reinforcing it. It's much less invasive.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
As others have said, the only people arguing semantics are the ones saying he didn’t have a second tjs. Yes everyone knows the brace reduced ‘out’ time. Yes everyone knows it wasn’t a full tear … although a partial tear is the same basically to a pitcher.

Strider just had his second major arm injury and is now a huge risk the rest of his career. His arm is now repaired twice and structurally altered and no one knows if and when it will blow again. Exactly the same as if he had the full TJS this time around.
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The risk is obvious. I think you might be overestimating it.
 
Southcack77 said:
The risk is obvious. I think you might be overestimating it.
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How. I am not saying his arm will blow up. Just that he had two tears in his elbow. Both had to be fixed. You guys can argue about the procedures. But the fact remains he has a two time damaged elbow that shut him down for a year plus. That elevates his risk over other pitchers going forward.
 
The Braves are simply carrying an extremely high risk pitching staff into a championship window season and as much as I like AA I just can’t buy the company line that they didn’t see any opportunities that were worth blocking Holmes and Anderson. They didn’t see any opportunities they were willing to pay the tax for.

If you compare Braves and Dodgers pitching staffs, the Dodgers have Snell and then a bunch of injury risks but their depth is still proven above average MLB starters backstopped by a super high leverage bullpen. The Braves are a couple of foreseeable pitching injuries away from Elder, AJSS, and Waldrep making meaningful starts or Pierce Johnson/Daysbel closing meaningful games.

We won a World Series with basically 2 healthy starting pitchers so anything can happen. But the goal since then always seemed to be to never be caught that lacking in depth again yet here we are.
 
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Yeah, the depth situation is what's frustrating me most right now.

While I am bought-in to the upside case of giving guys like Holmes and Perdomo a clear path to making the team, I do not feel that way about Ian Anderson. Couldn't we at least bring in a veteran on an MiLB deal to compete with him? It costs you nothing but effort to do that.

I like Daysbel plenty, but the reality is that he has two MiLB options. Wouldn't the team be better if we added a high-leverage RP and used Daysbel to yo-yo back and forth between Atlanta and Gwinnett?

And possibly the most puzzling thing to me . . . why is it necessary to clog the 40-man roster with low upside position players like Allen, Williams, and White. One - or even two - of them may be reasonable, but all three? There were a lot of interesting guys with MiLB options that we passed over in waivers this offseason so that we could hold Luke Williams.
 
ATL22 said:
The Braves are simply carrying an extremely high risk pitching staff into a championship window season and as much as I like AA I just can’t buy the company line that they didn’t see any opportunities that were worth blocking Holmes and Anderson. They didn’t see any opportunities they were willing to pay the tax for.

If you compare Braves and Dodgers pitching staffs, the Dodgers have Snell and then a bunch of injury risks but their depth is still proven above average MLB starters backstopped by a super high leverage bullpen. The Braves are a couple of foreseeable pitching injuries away from Elder, AJSS, and Waldrep making meaningful starts or Pierce Johnson/Daysbel closing meaningful games.

We won a World Series with basically 2 healthy starting pitchers so anything can happen. But the goal since then always seemed to be to never be caught that lacking in depth again yet here we are.
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Who are these pitchers who arent injury risks. Sale's only injury the last 1.5 years was back spasms. Most of his injuries with Boston were freak injuries not really related to his elbow. Lopez has less wear and tear on his arm than most SP his age and has been relatively healthy. Schwellenbach had TJ a couple years ago and there is a 5 year window after TJ where the pitcher is generally a better health risk if they recover. Strider got the brace which has shown encouraging results in keeping the ligament healthy. The brae is almost to the point where some could get it done before ever even getting injured.

We have heavily invested in pitching and at some point you have to put some faith in them. AJSS and Waldrep both have potential to be good starters. We got Hackenberg and Braun right behind them and Ritchie and Murphy behind them. AJSS in particular its time for him to win a rotation spot. When he is hitting 100 mph in Spring Training people are gonna get back on his hype train.
 
dak said:
Yeah, the depth situation is what's frustrating me most right now.

While I am bought-in to the upside case of giving guys like Holmes and Perdomo a clear path to making the team, I do not feel that way about Ian Anderson. Couldn't we at least bring in a veteran on an MiLB deal to compete with him? It costs you nothing but effort to do that.

I like Daysbel plenty, but the reality is that he has two MiLB options. Wouldn't the team be better if we added a high-leverage RP and used Daysbel to yo-yo back and forth between Atlanta and Gwinnett?

And possibly the most puzzling thing to me . . . why is it necessary to clog the 40-man roster with low upside position players like Allen, Williams, and White. One - or even two - of them may be reasonable, but all three? There were a lot of interesting guys with MiLB options that we passed over in waivers this offseason so that we could hold Luke Williams.
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I'm a big AA guy but there's nothing he can say to spin this offseason. It's a fail and that's it. I remember looking back when Soler was traded, TDA let go, and then Bummer had his contract re worked we all thought he was gearing up for something big and literally set there the rest of the time outside of Profar. Crazy.
 
I'm not going to dismiss Strider's chances, but just because a surgery is less invasive doesn't mean it isn't invasive. It's the same procedure that Brock Purdy underwent, but the big difference is Purdy has never had a big arm and his success isn't tied to velocity. If Strider loses a few MPH off his fastball, I think it's trouble. He's a smart guy and I'm not going to say he couldn't adjust to a possible new reality, but we've seen over the past two seasons that if his fastball isn't in the high-90s, the old saying "get the married men out of the infield" applies.
 
cajunrevenge said:
Who are these pitchers who arent injury risks. Sale's only injury the last 1.5 years was back spasms. Most of his injuries with Boston were freak injuries not really related to his elbow. Lopez has less wear and tear on his arm than most SP his age and has been relatively healthy. Schwellenbach had TJ a couple years ago and there is a 5 year window after TJ where the pitcher is generally a better health risk if they recover. Strider got the brace which has shown encouraging results in keeping the ligament healthy. The brae is almost to the point where some could get it done before ever even getting injured.

We have heavily invested in pitching and at some point you have to put some faith in them. AJSS and Waldrep both have potential to be good starters. We got Hackenberg and Braun right behind them and Ritchie and Murphy behind them. AJSS in particular its time for him to win a rotation spot. When he is hitting 100 mph in Spring Training people are gonna get back on his hype train.
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Sale is in his upper 30’s. He literally went down last year when the team needed him most. That is just a crazy line of thought you just presented.
Lopez increased his inning significantly last year and that can always increase the chances of damage.
Strider is coming back from a second arm issue and we have no idea how that will affect him or hold up

All pitchers have risks associated. But how you can’t see the extra risks that those 3 guys carry over other pitchers is beyond me.
 
CyYoung31 said:
Correcting people saying it’s not actually TJS because it’s a different procedure where the objective is essentially the same thing is a means to insinuate that the risk isn’t the same as it would be with regular TJS. At this point, it’s unclear whether this surgery provides a better prognosis than a 2nd TJS. Ergo, anyone doing this is essentially arguing that there is no reason, or at least much less reason, for concern regarding Strider’s outlook.
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I think the risk isn’t the same as it would be with regular TJS.
 
Of course every pitcher is an injury risk but there’s a difference in relying on pitchers with a recent history of injuries vs pitchers with a track record of making 30+ starts most seasons. We nursed Sale and ReyLo through last season with extra off days and both still wound up battling injuries at the end. This year we almost have to use a 6 man rotation whether we call it that or not because both those guys still need extra rest to try to duplicate last year’s success and every other starter we have either hasn’t pitched a full MLB season or is returning from injury.

I’m a fan so I hope they all stay healthy and that AJSS finally realizes his potential. But we desperately needed a proven veteran like Morton with a recent history of making 30+ starts and eating innings to help get us through 162 and the FO for whatever reason is rolling the dice on a higher risk staff than we’ve seen in years. And it’s not like we’re in a weak division where we can get away with gambling on a cheaper roster and fix it at the trade deadline without risking a playoff spot.
 
We have reached the point in the offseason where some fans are trying to justify the roster. False equivalencies like “the Braves pitchers aren’t reeeeally any more risky than all other pitchers”, and “repairing an elbow twice isn’t reeeeeally as bad now that someone told me they are using a brace” are very typical comments at this time of peak optimism. Pair those comments with tried and true delusional comments about how some fringe prospect is quality depth and we have the perfect homer conversation going on right now.

People claiming Sale isn’t a massive injury risk after seeing him miss October is the funniest part though.

Anywho…if Acuna, Strider and Sale can be babied into October this team has a strong puncher’s chance to win it all.
 
ATL22 said:
Of course every pitcher is an injury risk but there’s a difference in relying on pitchers with a recent history of injuries vs pitchers with a track record of making 30+ starts most seasons. We nursed Sale and ReyLo through last season with extra off days and both still wound up battling injuries at the end. This year we almost have to use a 6 man rotation whether we call it that or not because both those guys still need extra rest to try to duplicate last year’s success and every other starter we have either hasn’t pitched a full MLB season or is returning from injury.

I’m a fan so I hope they all stay healthy and that AJSS finally realizes his potential. But we desperately needed a proven veteran like Morton with a recent history of making 30+ starts and eating innings to help get us through 162 and the FO for whatever reason is rolling the dice on a higher risk staff than we’ve seen in years. And it’s not like we’re in a weak division where we can get away with gambling on a cheaper roster and fix it at the trade deadline without risking a playoff spot.
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Sales recent injury history. TJ surgery in 2020. His first. Totally normal. 2022 Sale had a rib stress fracture to start the year. A non baseball related injury. He then broke his wrist falling off his bike. Again, non baseball injury. 2023 he had a stress fracture in his shoulder blade which did happen while pitching. Then the back spasms last year. Thats all not the same as someone with constant elbow issues or a chronic knee problem. Sale is also only 35. Reynaldo Lopez has no injury history before last year I saw in a quick search. Schwellenbach has no injury history but TJ which he already has successfully returned from. If all 4 of our aces including Strider were free agents this offseason they would combine for 110-125 million in yearly average value. If they are so injury prone as you people claim then we should have traded them because every other team looks at those risks you describe and would be more than happy to take that chance. You cant accurately predict injuries. You tell me 20 SP who are safe bets and then watch 5 of them miss most of the season from injury. Hell it may be Cease who wins up missing most of the year.
 
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