That very well may be. But we were told over and over again that there was no way the team could compete with the Nationals this season so going. How they were one of the power houses of the league and trying one more time was pointless. Turns out the NL East is the worst division in baseball and 88 wins is likely to take the division.
Oh Fredi haters.?
- Thread starter VirginiaBrave
- Start date
That very well may be. But we were told over and over again that there was no way the team could compete with the Nationals this season so going. How they were one of the power houses of the league and trying one more time was pointless. Turns out the NL East is the worst division in baseball and 88 wins is likely to take the division.
NYCBrave
Well-known member
Did our front office say that? Also, do you really think if we had kept the same team as last year, we would have improved over last year's record? There's no guarantee
No. But that was one of the justifications from many posters on here. And yes I think our record would of been better than last years team. And you are right that there is no guarantee. Nothing really is except we weren't going to compete this year or for a few more years. And there is no guarantee that 2017 will be any different either.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
Sure, there's things that don't show up in the stat sheet that matter. I'm not discounting that and neither is everyone else. I think you're setting up a false narrative there.
I'm as big a fan of Maybin as there is. I wanted to sign him after he was DFA'd, before the Kimbrel trade even happened. I like him for completely irrational reasons, as well as for the fact that I think is good ballplayer. He's a WNC homie, he's obviously happy here, and he goes balls out on every play, and I appreciate that.
I'm not picking a fight with you, per se. I am speaking against people who have grasped a narrative and ignored actual results. I think we've held our own mostly because we've replaced BJ with Maybin and CJ with some combination of better players. Do I see hope for the future? Sure. Do I see the sprinkling of Braves Way fairy dust and contact hitters and "playing the game the right way" as the ultimate answer? Absolutely not. I see better players as the answer.
My bottom line is that I'd like to see people be a little more forthright about what we are this year. Do you feel good about a 72-75 win club? Cool. Just don't try to convince me that they're more than they are, or that a couple of injuries and trades are the difference between this club in the playoffs.
I'm as big a fan of Maybin as there is. I wanted to sign him after he was DFA'd, before the Kimbrel trade even happened. I like him for completely irrational reasons, as well as for the fact that I think is good ballplayer. He's a WNC homie, he's obviously happy here, and he goes balls out on every play, and I appreciate that.
I'm not picking a fight with you, per se. I am speaking against people who have grasped a narrative and ignored actual results. I think we've held our own mostly because we've replaced BJ with Maybin and CJ with some combination of better players. Do I see hope for the future? Sure. Do I see the sprinkling of Braves Way fairy dust and contact hitters and "playing the game the right way" as the ultimate answer? Absolutely not. I see better players as the answer.
My bottom line is that I'd like to see people be a little more forthright about what we are this year. Do you feel good about a 72-75 win club? Cool. Just don't try to convince me that they're more than they are, or that a couple of injuries and trades are the difference between this club in the playoffs.
CyYoung31
Shift Leader
Actually, Hart did say that when he took the job and tried to justify the sell off.
Interesting
weso1
<B>Clique Leader</B>
You went from BJ Upton to Cameron Maybin. This is why you like Maybin. I don't feel good about a 72-75 win club. I was hoping we'd be worse than that.
Pretty much sums up my thoughts exactly. Though I'm hoping to see 70 wins or a little less to get that top 5 draft pick.
I don't see it as looking to pick a fight at all. Simply differing opinions.
I actually do think that if you added a couple of impact players to the club - as currently constructed - would actually make it pretty "competitive" in the sense you're using. Again, that's the difference between statheads and scoutheads IMO. What I find tough to swallow is that the same people that say that this team would've been competitive for one more season if it would've kept Heyward, J-Up, and Gattis can't see that that would've been the wrong approach since it was going "all-in" on a roster that hadn't made it beyond a Wild Card game.
I don't imagine you disagree with the idea that IF they'd have taken another shot with those guys that the team would've had to be completely rebuilt following 2015. Heyward and J-Up would've left for greener pastures - win or lose. As a fan, I've been in favor of "taking a shot" when you feel like you have one - parades ought to be the goal. Of course if that would have been the approach, there wouldn't have been any assets to trade - making the process take that much longer.
However, I have a really tough time hearing the same people scream that the franchise should've taken that shot turn around and blast JS for doing the exact same thing with the Wainright/Drew and prospects for Tex deals. What, exactly, is the difference? When they made those deals, they thought they had enough pieces in place that Drew or Tex could be that difference-maker. The same people that wanted to keep the guys traded this winter also mention Justin's streakiness and Heyward's lack of power when it fits their argument.
My personal point all along has been that taking another shot with those guys and their flaws wasn't likely to yield a different outcome than it had before since we just didn't have the other pieces to back them up. Again, it's just my opinion, but the return Hart & Company got was far better than two draft picks in the #30-#40 range in the 2016 Draft. If you (or anyone else) can show me numbers that PROVE keeping last year's team together would've somehow led to Justin and Heyward performing better than they have for their new teams and the 2015 Braves would advance deeper into October, I'll be the first (and loudest) person to say I was wrong.
Does anyone honestly believe that that team could've been a legitimate contender with the 2015 versions of Harang, Teheran, and Wood as the guys you'd run out there against good teams?
VirginiaBrave
Well-known member
But here is thing as far as Freddie's injury, he was the one guy we couldn't lose and did. And the thing that drove me nuts and still does is at the time of that injury, June whatever it was, the Braves had a game and a half deficit but you would have thought it ten the way posters wrote them off. For the first eight weeks or so of the season, this team played well.
Runnin
Well-known member
Don't know if it's the right way or not, but it's fun to watch.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
Maybin's a bit of a klutz, isn't he? /with affection
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
They really did. Who knows how it would've turned out if they'd kept it together? The bar turned out to be pretty low in the east.
Once they started stripping down the car for parts, it stopped running well.
There was a point - and I'm not making this up - when I was being sold a rebuild on the fly. As in, "Look, we burned it to the ground in Cleveland and started over, but we could afford to lose for a few seasons, because, look, Cleveland had no tradition of winning. Atlanta is different. We're going to 'retool', but remain competitive while doing so."
Then The Johns warmed to their task and traded everybody but the peanut vendors and clubhouse attendants.
I think they actually got it right by gutting it down to the studs as they did, instead of trying to balance some kind of half-ass attempt to compete. But if he was trying to keep ticket sales in place, he needn't have bothered. We're 14th out of 15 in the NL in attendance. The fans figured out they could watch the same guys in Gwinnett half the year for a third of the ticket price.
GovClintonTyree
<B>Vencer a Los Doyers</B>
There have been clubs that won more with less. And this little Island of Misfit Toys was showing signs of being one of those outfits. But it wouldn't have been anything sustainable.
As for the remaining holes in the field, we'll need better players, it's true. I think we've reached our limit of scrappy overachievers promoted from within and need some hairy-ass, steroid-laden power guys to plug in. And not from free agency, since practically every one of those dudes is on the downhill slope of one of those fancy graphics Giles or another stathead prepares (see? I can read and understand. Elderly players suck. Don't pay them.) I think we should trade with the dumb and the desperate. AJ Preller's replacement, or Preller himself if he remains employed.
nsacpi
Expects Yuge Games
I have a distinct recollection of the front office making reference to the strength of the Gnats in discussing whether it would have been wise to go for it in 2015.
I seem to recall that as well - don't have a direct link handy at the moment though.
Julio3000
<B>A Chip Off the Old Rock</B>
Yeah, he's looked a tad janky and clanky in CF sometimes. It stings a bit to cite Joe Simpson as a reference, but a couple of weeks ago he praised Cam for running hard out of the box every time, and rightfully so.
sturg33
I
They won the division and played in the LDS in 2013 - just one year prior. And were a boneheaded manager mistake away from beating Kershaw and going to game 5 at home