OK ... Time to begin the bullpen reboot

rico43

rico43

<B>Director of Minor League Reports</B>
There is no reason for Hursh, Weber, EOF, and for my money, Younginer, to throw another inning in the majors this year.

I know we've dealt away two of our most reliable guys, but it's not fair to Johnson, Cabrera, or even Roe to put timid, overmatched and shellshocked guys out there with them.

Time to pull the trigger. We need to see Minter, Morris, maybe even Caleb Dirks and Jeb Bradley. Shea Simmons whenever the hell he's ready. He's off the DL, but not ready? Explain it to me.
 
rico43 said:
There is no reason for Hursh, Weber, EOF, and for my money, Younginer, to throw another inning in the majors this year.

Time to pull the trigger. We need to see Minter, Morris, maybe even Caleb Dirks and Jeb Bradley. Shea Simmons whenever the hell he's ready. He's off the DL, but not ready? Explain it to me.
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I would think they would hold off on Minter due to 40-man roster considerations, but they moved Swanson up so maybe they aren't worried about that. With you on the other guys. Maybe Roney too.
 
50PoundHead said:
I would think they would hold off on Minter due to 40-man roster considerations, but they moved Swanson up so maybe they aren't worried about that. With you on the other guys. Maybe Roney too.
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Minter is an older college guy, so there is little reason to hold him back.
 
rico43 said:
There is no reason for Hursh, Weber, EOF, and for my money, Younginer, to throw another inning in the majors this year.

I know we've dealt away two of our most reliable guys, but it's not fair to Johnson, Cabrera, or even Roe to put timid, overmatched and shellshocked guys out there with them.

Time to pull the trigger. We need to see Minter, Morris, maybe even Caleb Dirks and Jeb Bradley. Shea Simmons whenever the hell he's ready. He's off the DL, but not ready? Explain it to me.
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Might as well. Who worries about little things like finances, actually being prepared for the opportunity, using your assets when they actually mean something to the team?

In fact, why not go ahead and bring Maitan up and let him grow into the role? Or scoot Allard, Anderson, Wentz on up the ladder? Let'em grow into their roles at the ML level!

The last month and a half of this season is perfect to fill up the ole 40 man and get some exposure for these guys. Even if they don't stick, their make-up is such that being crushed by real ML players will far be outweighed by the ML atmosphere, and the OJT they will get from guys like AJP and grizzled veterans like Markakis.

And these pen guys really need to get used to being used 3 out of 4 days - get that horseflesh used to the old Snit riding crop!

Who knows, maybe calling all of them up will be the difference between losing 105 games and 110 games this season!
 
Forever Fredi said:
By keeping EOF, Hursh, Younginer on the team we increase our odds of 1-1.
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It's already done! The collapse of the rotation cinched that weeks ago. Why even worry about that. I just don't want this team to lose 100 games.
After watching these last two games against the Twins, you think this team can manage a streak. That's laughable. I just want it to be competitive from night to night -- which they were when Alvarez and Cervenka were the bridge.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
Might as well. Who worries about little things like finances, actually being prepared for the opportunity, using your assets when they actually mean something to the team?

In fact, why not go ahead and bring Maitan up and let him grow into the role? Or scoot Allard, Anderson, Wentz on up the ladder? Let'em grow into their roles at the ML level!

The last month and a half of this season is perfect to fill up the ole 40 man and get some exposure for these guys. Even if they don't stick, their make-up is such that being crushed by real ML players will far be outweighed by the ML atmosphere, and the OJT they will get from guys like AJP and grizzled veterans like Markakis.

And these pen guys really need to get used to being used 3 out of 4 days - get that horseflesh used to the old Snit riding crop!

Who knows, maybe calling all of them up will be the difference between losing 105 games and 110 games this season!
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There is enough garbage in your post to sink a barge, but I'll try to explain it without being as condescending as you just were to me.
Minter: 22 years old, turns 23 in two weeks.
Morris: 23, turns 24 in November. Pitched in the majors in 2015.
Simmons: no one has yet explained why he's off the DL and not back in the majors. You offered no help in your otherwise helpful post.
Jed Bradley: just named SL Pitcher of the Week, is 26.
Dirks, who we traded to LA and then traded to get him back, is 23.
I was no math major, but six years seems to be a long time in baseball years, and that's the difference between these guys and Maitan, who you brought up for no apparent reason. For the most part, our newest pitchers are all still 18. My abacus tells me that they are five years younger than the pitchers I am talking about.
The club is already pushing the Boy Wonders sufficiently. Wentz, Anderson, Muller all project at Rome starters next year. What they do will dictate where they go next.
As for being used 3 out of 4 days, that won't be a problem as of Sept. 1 (13 days away), the roster can expand to as many as 40. I am on record as to not liking the way Snit uses his bullpen, but if you suck when you're fresh you're gonna suck when you're tired. That would describe Hursh, Younginer, EOF and Weber. If someone got some outs in a consistent manner, we wouldn't need five relievers a night.
I enjoy going back and forth with people here in an intelligent manner. You might want to try it next time.
 
rico43 said:
It's already done! The collapse of the rotation cinched that weeks ago. Why even worry about that. I just don't want this team to lose 100 games.
After watching these last two games against the Twins, you think this team can manage a streak. That's laughable. I just want it to be competitive from night to night -- which they were when Alvarez and Cervenka were the bridge.
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That's why it was smart of GM to do two things:

1) Trade them before Cervenka busts.

2) Trade them while they were pitching solid for us which was helping us win games.
 
rico43 said:
There is enough garbage in your post to sink a barge, but I'll try to explain it without being as condescending as you just were to me.
Minter: 22 years old, turns 23 in two weeks.
Morris: 23, turns 24 in November. Pitched in the majors in 2015.
Simmons: no one has yet explained why he's off the DL and not back in the majors. You offered no help in your otherwise helpful post.
Jed Bradley: just named SL Pitcher of the Week, is 26.
Dirks, who we traded to LA and then traded to get him back, is 23.
I was no math major, but six years seems to be a long time in baseball years, and that's the difference between these guys and Maitan, who you brought up for no apparent reason. For the most part, our newest pitchers are all still 18. My abacus tells me that they are five years younger than the pitchers I am talking about.
The club is already pushing the Boy Wonders sufficiently. Wentz, Anderson, Muller all project at Rome starters next year. What they do will dictate when they go next.
As for being used 3 out of 4 days, I hate to break the news to you, but as of Sept. 1 (13 days away), the roster can expand to as many as 40. I am on record as to not liking the way Snit uses his bullpen, but if you suck when you're fresh you're gonna suck when you're tired. That would describe Hursh, Younginer, EOF and Weber.
I enjoy going back and forth with people here in an intelligent manner. You might want to try it next time.
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My apologies to you Rico. I am certainly frustrated with what I see as a rebuild that has now gone completely rudderless but I didn't intend to single you out personally.

I will say that every one of those guys that you mention, if they aren't already on the 40 man would be taking up a very valuable 40 man slot and force the likely exposure of any current pitchers who get sent down, like Hursh, to being taken off the 40 man and in my opinion there is absolutely nothing to be gained and much to lose.

The Braves should be using 40 man spots to claim guys who get cut from other teams in the event that they might acquire someone useful.

It's one of my biggest beefs about the whole Swanson deal (but certainly not the only one). He now is a permanent fixture on the 40 man when he doesn't have to be. They could have easily played Peterson at short or D'Arnaud or Castro or Kubitza and saved the spot Swanson now occupies.

Youngineer, Weber, Roe, O'Flaherty, Marksberry, etc. are all already on the 40 man. If you send them down AND replace them with someone who isn't already on the 40 man, then you almost certainly have to take the guy off that you are sending down.

If you want to see Simmons up or Morris, fine I have no problems with that since they are already on the 40 man although I suspect that if Simmons was anywhere near ready he would already be up. They may view (hopefully) Simmons as an asset that is worthwhile being careful with.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
Relax Rico. Chris and viz will be back soon. No need to call up no 40 man guys. Hursh needs to see what he has.
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I watched Hursh in the Southern League. Same guy I saw tonight. Has great arm, no backbone.

As for the 40-man guys, my point is that EOF, Younginer (who was another scrap heap pickup), Weber (who's had two drinks from the trough) and Hursh don't need to be on the 40-man either. To me, they are the ones using up valuable roster spots. There are a handful of guys who need to go (back) onto the 40-man even before the winter meetings (Mallex, Williams Perez, possibly Winkler, Jesse Biddle and Paco Rodriguez, all of whom are on the 60-day DL) so I get your point about not adding anyone. Minter could easily be a non-roster invite next spring with a lock on staying, and I won't find fault with that.
I keep expecting there to be a trade where we package up four or five of these boys and get something of value in return. And I don't mean McCann, who has officially lost his job to Sanchez, he of the home run binge.
 
I don't see a reason for EOF or Younginger to be on the team either. I think we should use those spots for showcasing anyone we plan on making expendable in the offseason. I assumed that's what they were doing with Hursh, but he just may not have any value.
 
I realize your emotions may have been high when you posted this, but what have Hursh, Younginer, and Weber done to deserve such criticism? They have a grand total of like 21 innings between them. There is zero reason to play the revolving door in the bullpen in a rebuilding year. Let the guys pitch to see what you got. In about 11-12 days we can call up the other guys too.
 
I get the auditions to an extent. We need to find out about these guys. I thought Weber had played out his hand last season, but the front office had other ideas. The problem for both Weber and Hursh is that they are heavy groundball guys who lack swing-and-miss stuff. That works in the minors, but as I have said about a zillion times, the minors and the majors are in different galaxies and what looks promising in AA and AAA may not translate in an environment with a markedly different gravitational pull in terms of talent.

Younginer has a big fastball and sometimes you catch lightning in a bottle (and sometimes you simply get drenched by the thunderstorm). Baseball history is littered with guys like Younginer who found a groove for a year or two and then vanished into the mist. No harm in finding out.

I'm with HH on the 40-man roster angle. You build around your core and there are a lot of guys out there who don't fit with their system that could find their way to Atlanta and contribute. We should be playing the edges and to some extent, I think we've been doing that. But you simply can't fill your 40-man spots in a cavalier manner and I view some of these late-season moves as impatient and a bit irrational.
 
I'm generally not too concerned with bullpen arms getting acclimated to the majors, so I'm not too worried about bringing up a guy like Minter this year. It seems like most of the time, if those guys are going to be good, they're good right away. So I'm fine with waiting until next year.

Here's how I would plan to set up the pen for next year:

Long man: Jenkins
MR: Paco, Withrow, FA LHP
7th: Simmons/Cabrera
8th: Minter/Simmons
9th: Vizcaino
 
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