Okay, what's your choice?

Bedell - aren't you in North Carolina? Your vote is pretty damned important. I hope you can find some peace, one way or the other, before election day.

Respect your convictions nonetheless.
 
McMuffinn if it's on my ballot. If not then I'm just voting down ticket. Might write in sweet meteor o'death.
 
I am voting for the only candidate whose policies will not result in over 100k women being raped. Who else here is against raping women?
 
Runnin said:
Hillary being elected is the only outcome that could save the Republican party.
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A Trump win would put the leadership in an extremely odd situation, particularly the ones who have attempted to cleanse their hands of him. He would pretty much be the first person to take down the Clinton machine, and most conservatives now consider that the Clinton-Obama machine. So, do they embrace him for that, try to work with him?

But Trump would not forget those who "did him wrong." And I think it's highly possible that he "leaves" the party and becomes an independent once in office.
 
Gary Johnson.

But if he is not going to win, my next preferred outcome would be HRC winning the presidency while the GOP retains Congress. Hope for a good bit of gridlock.
 
bravesnumberone said:
A Trump win would put the leadership in an extremely odd situation, particularly the ones who have attempted to cleanse their hands of him. He would pretty much be the first person to take down the Clinton machine, and most conservatives now consider that the Clinton-Obama machine. So, do they embrace him for that, try to work with him?

But Trump would not forget those who "did him wrong." And I think it's highly possible that he "leaves" the party and becomes an independent once in office.
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If Trump were to win, I could see something similar to what happened here in Minnesota when Ventura was Governor. Ventura had so base in the Legislature, so he still had a big hammer as Governor, but he had to negotiate a lot more than most Governors do. He did accomplish some things (some of them really bad), but the state was in tall cotton financially and he both cut taxes/fees and increased spending (mostly through moving a large portion of the property tax burden to a state responsibility). The state would have been in the hole even if 9/11 hadn't happened, but when it did and the recession ensued, we were in a deep hole. Federal government doesn't have to balance the budget, so I see a Trump presidency being littered with tax and spending giveaways with no central theme or purpose to the changes. I think Trump would also be extremely erratic in his treatment of Congress. He would, as you point out, not hesitate to pummel Paul Ryan and others.

I have no problem voting for Hillary. She has that bothersome Nixon tinge to her, but I don't see her driving the country off the cliff. She would be a transitional President and I'm guessing a one-termer. I see this election, in some ways, as being similar to when George H.W. Bush took up the Reagan mantle and lasted a term before he couldn't navigate the change in the currents. The key for the Democrats will be how the Republicans would react to a loss. There is realignment going on within both parties and a decade from now, things will likely look a lot different in both camps.
 
50PoundHead said:
If Trump were to win, I could see something similar to what happened here in Minnesota when Ventura was Governor. Ventura had so base in the Legislature, so he still had a big hammer as Governor, but he had to negotiate a lot more than most Governors do. He did accomplish some things (some of them really bad), but the state was in tall cotton financially and he both cut taxes/fees and increased spending (mostly through moving a large portion of the property tax burden to a state responsibility). The state would have been in the hole even if 9/11 hadn't happened, but when it did and the recession ensued, we were in a deep hole. Federal government doesn't have to balance the budget, so I see a Trump presidency being littered with tax and spending giveaways with no central theme or purpose to the changes. I think Trump would also be extremely erratic in his treatment of Congress. He would, as you point out, not hesitate to pummel Paul Ryan and others.

I have no problem voting for Hillary. She has that bothersome Nixon tinge to her, but I don't see her driving the country off the cliff. She would be a transitional President and I'm guessing a one-termer. I see this election, in some ways, as being similar to when George H.W. Bush took up the Reagan mantle and lasted a term before he couldn't navigate the change in the currents. The key for the Democrats will be how the Republicans would react to a loss. There is realignment going on within both parties and a decade from now, things will likely look a lot different in both camps.
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Just curious since you've been involved in it pretty deeply. How do you see the parties in general 10 years from now?
 
Hawk said:
Bedell - aren't you in North Carolina? Your vote is pretty damned important. I hope you can find some peace, one way or the other, before election day.

Respect your convictions nonetheless.
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Hawk, I appreciate your concern - but the Rs lost me as soon as he secured the nomination. That ship has sailed. There is absolutely nothing I like about his campaign and his promises are as good as well, the promises made to former wives and business partners...

And now that he's declaring war on the Rs running for the Senate who won't support him or took back their endorsements, threatening the very R majority needed on the approval of SCOTUS nominees, even if he were to try to keep his SCOTUS promise - what good is it?

Brilliant move Donald. Smh.
 
Hey Beds, you still keeping your head above water out there man? NC's been hit hard and on multiple times this year, I hope you're still doing OK.
 
Whatever happens, I'm glad I'll be at the bottom of the Grand Canyon the first two days and nights of next week. That's a choice about which I have no qualms.
 
I agree with Louis C.K.

Vote for Hillary - adult
Vote for Trump - sucker
Don't vote - a**hole

I'm not voting.
 
I'm voting for Gary Johnson but the anti-Trump folks need to clear their heads and start thinking rationally. He's not a racist, he's not a rapist, he's not a bad business man, he doesn't hate immigrants and he doesn't want to get rid of Muslims.

When you take things like "Mexico isn't sending us their best" which is a true statement and try to make that into "he hates Mexicans" you're the bad person. You're the one spreading hate. You're the one creating some false impression that he said something that he didn't say and trying to benefit your favored politician using that deceit.

When he says he wants a temporary ban on Muslim immigration (later clarified to mean from certain countries) UNTIL we know our vetting system works. And you say he hates Muslims then you're the one creating an environment of hate by spreading false information. He doesn't hate Muslims, he hates our vetting process. That's all he said.. until the vetting process is reviewed.

When he says that when you're famous some women let you do what you want and you call it rape you're saying that women who "let you" do something don't have the agency to make that decision. And yes, he said they "Let you" he didn't say "do it even if they don't let you".

The anti-Trump left has literally created this imaginary foe. I give the Democrats credit for their manipulation and deceitfulness in making people think Trump has said things or means something different than what he has said. It's a political victory for them but it's been nothing but destructive to the families, friends, race relations and the ability of people with different beliefs to get along.

Hillary Clinton's campaign has been fed debate questions ahead of time. She intentionally kept government emails on private servers then intentionally destroyed them. She was complicit in the selling of arms to terrorists in Libya. She used her position in government office to give special treatment to people who donated money to her foundation. She made promises to visit foreign countries if they'd give money to her foundation. She's committed any number of horrible acts but the "but she's not Trump" argument keeps coming out as if that should mean something. It doesn't. It means nothing. She IS Hillary Clinton and that should be enough to keep her from ever holding any office in the US government and especially not the Presidency..

I'm confident she's going to be elected. She's going to wade into the oval office knee deep in corruption, deceit, scandal, lies and criminal acts. But reality is that,as an outsider, Obama was our last hope to break the status quo and we see how that worked out so we'll continue on the same path we've been on since George HW Bush took office. The same wars, the same economic bubble and burst cycles, the same lies. At least we're used to it.

Rant over
 
There have been instances where Trump's words were distorted, but there have been numerous times where he said what he said and there's no getting around it. My biggest problem with him has always been that he lacks a lot of critical knowledge or at least talks like it. I saw him in person three times, never once heard anything about what he would actually do as president. It was all about how bad Clinton was. I know she's corrupt. You don't have to tell me. Tell me why I should vote for you and what you can actually offer.

For her, it's gotten to be the same way. And yes, it's almost like this thing was her birthright from the beginning and how dare anyone stand in the way. It was the same mindset in 2008 and they tried their damnedest to belittle Obama, but it didn't work because he was a once-in-a-generation political candidate and orator at a time of deep dissatisfaction with the way things were going. The active collusion against Sanders was an embarrassment. The lack of real competition on the Democratic side was pathetic.

I think you're mostly right about Clinton if she's elected, which is likely. I don't think the whisper of scandal, real or imagined, will ever go away during her tenure. Assuming Trump has made this close enough to avoid a Democratic takeover of Congress, things will largely continue to go the way they have in recent years. There will be plenty of finger-pointing and little no substantive action that will benefit everyday Americans. It's the biggest reason this two-party monopoly must be broken.

If we have President Trump, I still have no real idea what to expect overall. Will Paul Ryan and he mend fixes and the establishment get in his ear? Will Trump be the chameleon I expect he is and change political views on a dime if it suits his interests? I'm uncomfortable with him from a foreign policy standpoint because his rhetoric leads me to believe he will be a total loose cannon, retaliatory in nature. And how will we approach trade? Yes, we've gotten screwed over in deals, but we can't abandon the principles of free trade at the same time. And there needs to be a more articulate plan for real and actual job creation than using higher taxes and tariffs to keep jobs here and cracking down on illegal immigration. A real job plan would focus on putting in place a real commitment to improving and diversifying our education system. If education continues to decline, so too will the economy. No getting around it.

In the end, this has all been about "Well, at least he's not Clinton" or "Well, at least she's not Trump." We have a candidate who lacks the knowledge and stability and one who lacks the ethics and judgment.

I'm just not interested in **** salad and **** sandwich anymore.
 
jpx7 said:
Whatever happens, I'm glad I'll be at the bottom of the Grand Canyon the first two days and nights of next week. That's a choice about which I have no qualms.
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I'll be flying over you.

Catching a late afternoon flight to Las Vegas from BOS on the 8th, so by the time I take off from the East coast and land on the West the vote should be about called (God willing). Plan to spend a night or two in Sin City and then get lost in the desert (on a horse with no name) for a few days. The last month of this campaign has about near cost me my sanity. Need a hard reset.
 
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