O's and Royals showing interest in Nick the Stick

smootness said:
That says Soler or Baez. Not both.
Click to expand...

My bad on that but it still refutes his claim that they wouldn't trade Baez because "Maddon loves versatile infielders." The whole argument is he says it's ridiculous to think they would trade both and I think it's very clear that it's not ridiculous as both players are blocked and have already been willing to deal both.
 
zbhargrove said:
My bad on that but it still refutes his claim that they wouldn't trade Baez because "Maddon loves versatile infielders." The whole argument is he says it's ridiculous to think they would trade both and I think it's very clear that it's not ridiculous as both players are blocked and have already been willing to deal both.
Click to expand...

I'm with you. Nothing is ever off limits. There are just varying degrees of probability.

Some of this comes from posters who have GM envy - "So and so GM would never make a trade like that because they are too good to be fleeced" yada, yada...

Could you trade Mallex Smith for Trout? The probability of that is very, very, very low but there is no natural or man made law that precludes it as impossible.

Could you trade for both Soler and Baez? Given that both have, at times, been mentioned as available in trade, I would say the odds are reasonably good, especially given the Cubs win now cycle.
 
Horsehide Harry said:
I'm with you. Nothing is ever off limits. There are just varying degrees of probability.

Could you trade Mallex Smith for Trout? The probability of that is very, very, very low but there is no natural or man made law that precludes it as impossible.
.
Click to expand...

Just need to wait for LAA to hire Dave Stewart as GM after Zona fires him.
 
zbhargrove said:
Not at all... Swanson, Inciarte, and Blair is a much better package than Soler and Baez
Click to expand...

agreed.. but I think the point that was being made is that if the Braves were ever presented Baez and Soler for just Miller.. or even Miller and Spier(sp?).. then they would have jumped at it right off..
 
emk418 said:
I respectfully disagree
Click to expand...

debatable
both Soler and Baez have had MLB tastes and have not done that well. very high K rates for both. I think that scares some fans off..
Ender/Blair/Swanson can hide behind potential and it makes fans feel more comfortable.

I personally like the Zona trade better.. No doubt Soler and Baez are through the roof in the power department.. they just scare me in other areas.. I am a defense kinda guy too..
 
bravesfanMatt said:
not sure we need to be jumping to trade Julio. Now, I have been on board with trading anyone that can benefit the organization. however, I would rather let Julio pitch lights out for the first half then re-evaluate where we are and what we can do.. Same with Ender/Freeman or who ever.. only person I would care to trade is Nick and/or Swisher..
Click to expand...

At this point why not trade Julio? He is a decent pitcher. Just makes sense to trade him away like everyone else. If it came down to keeping Julio or Shelby I think they made a grave mistake.
 
Russ2dollas said:
Of course he has value. But he's a guy who the vast majority of his value is d. He's a league avg hitter at best. But he has value. It would take more than soler
Click to expand...

Let's see..."league-average hitter who the vast majority of his value is d." The Cubs just gave $185 million for one of those.

Inciarte provides huge surplus value right now. Unless The Johns can get the prospects they WANT (not the ones Jed and Theo want to give up), you don't give him up. Even then, you have to be completely sold on Smith to do so. You don't package him with Teheran and "sell low" on him.

Soler alone isn't close to enough to land Inciarte IMO. Given their high K-Rates, I'm not particularly interested in Soler or Baez to be completely honest, even with their power. If Theo and Jed want Ender and Julio, I'd be more comfortable with Soler, Willson Contreras, Dylan Cease or Pierce Johnson, and Jeimer Candelario.

Chasing all those OFs just because they're ranked higher on MLB Pipeline is crazy. This would be a trade where you start addressing holes at the MLB level...

Soler would address OF power. Contreras gives you your Catcher of the future (starting in 2017), Candelario give you your 3B of the future (starting in 2017), and Cease or Johnson give you an arm to replace Julio in the system.

The rumors are that they'd prefer to deal Soler over Baez, which is OK and fits in this proposal. Candelario is blocked by Bryant AND Baez, so that shouldn't be an issue. The stumbling block is that they say they don't want to move Contreras even though he's blocked by Montero and potentially Schwarber. We don't "want" to move Julio or Ender either - they're inexpensive and controlled through 2020.

If I were Coppy, I'd explain that my job is to make the Braves better, not the Cubs. "I'll give you what you need, but only if I get these pieces that will help me too. None of them figure into your plans over the next 3-4 years if you get Inciarte and Teheran. You have plenty of prospect depth to use in other trades if needed. Take it or leave it."
 
As for the thread topic, I'd ask the Royals for Jorge Bonifacio (so he can play with his brother - well maybe not for THAT reason) and Garrett Davila.
 
NinersSBChamps said:
At this point why not trade Julio? He is a decent pitcher. Just makes sense to trade him away like everyone else. If it came down to keeping Julio or Shelby I think they made a grave mistake.
Click to expand...

Because Shelby had a good year and they felt his stock was at max value. Julio had a down year and his stock took a hit. They're trading players at peak value, for others who's value might be low. Guys like Ender, Arodys, and Ryan Weber will be probably be traded for the same reason. I wouldn't even say that Albies is safe from being traded after the year he had. Sell high and buy low.
 
clvclv said:
Let's see..."league-average hitter who the vast majority of his value is d." The Cubs just gave $185 million for one of those.

Inciarte provides huge surplus value right now. Unless The Johns can get the prospects they WANT (not the ones Jed and Theo want to give up), you don't give him up. Even then, you have to be completely sold on Smith to do so. You don't package him with Teheran and "sell low" on him.

Soler alone isn't close to enough to land Inciarte IMO. Given their high K-Rates, I'm not particularly interested in Soler or Baez to be completely honest, even with their power. If Theo and Jed want Ender and Julio, I'd be more comfortable with Soler, Willson Contreras, Dylan Cease or Pierce Johnson, and Jeimer Candelario.

Chasing all those OFs just because they're ranked higher on MLB Pipeline is crazy. This would be a trade where you start addressing holes at the MLB level...

Soler would address OF power. Contreras gives you your Catcher of the future (starting in 2017), Candelario give you your 3B of the future (starting in 2017), and Cease or Johnson give you an arm to replace Julio in the system.

The rumors are that they'd prefer to deal Soler over Baez, which is OK and fits in this proposal. Candelario is blocked by Bryant AND Baez, so that shouldn't be an issue. The stumbling block is that they say they don't want to move Contreras even though he's blocked by Montero and potentially Schwarber. We don't "want" to move Julio or Ender either - they're inexpensive and controlled through 2020.

If I were Coppy, I'd explain that my job is to make the Braves better, not the Cubs. "I'll give you what you need, but only if I get these pieces that will help me too. None of them figure into your plans over the next 3-4 years if you get Inciarte and Teheran. You have plenty of prospect depth to use in other trades if needed. Take it or leave it."
Click to expand...

I agree with most of your points. I said most of them already.

Your first sentence is laughable. Inciarte and Heyward are nowhere near the same players. Heyward's wrc+ was 21 points higher last year. Inciarte is much more like Ben Revere than Jason Heyward. Again I wouldn't look to move him. But I'm hoping the Cubs are willing to overpay (not dbacks overpay but overpay) to get the missing pieces they need.
 
bravesfanMatt said:
agreed.. but I think the point that was being made is that if the Braves were ever presented Baez and Soler for just Miller.. or even Miller and Spier(sp?).. then they would have jumped at it right off..
Click to expand...

I don't think they would have jumped right off. They knew that the Cubs and Zona were in a bidding war. They were going to wait to see which one made the biggest offer.
 
Russ2dollas said:
I agree with most of your points. I said most of them already.

Your first sentence is laughable. Inciarte and Heyward are nowhere near the same players. Heyward's wrc+ was 21 points higher last year. Inciarte is much more like Ben Revere than Jason Heyward. Again I wouldn't look to move him. But I'm hoping the Cubs are willing to overpay (not dbacks overpay but overpay) to get the missing pieces they need.
Click to expand...

To be fair, Inciarte's 2015 is very, very similar to Heyward's 2014.
 
I would hold onto Inciarte. I wouldn't trade anyone else really except the older guys like Markakis, Swisher, Bourn,AJ, etc..

Why you ask? With a top 3 pick coming up and the organization going after international players in the coming days, its time we start thinking about holding onto these younger players under control and build a team around them.

We will have Freeman, Swanson, Albies, and Inciarte along with Olivera if he pans out. That's a strong and fast core up the middle.

Saying that, who knows, if Cubs offer us a great package or another team for Inciarte, would be foolish not to do it but I absolutely love what Inciarte will bring to this club for now and the future.
 
Carp said:
To be fair, Inciarte's 2015 is very, very similar to Heyward's 2014.
Click to expand...

I fail to see how a 21 pt wrc+ is similar. Gross numbers are inflated for Inciarte b/c of Dbacks park. Fangraphs has Incriarte at 3.3 WAR and Heyward at 6. Not similar.
 
I agree with this. I'm just been arguing it from the other side.

We are both saying keep inciarte unless someone overpays for him. I am just saying you go for it b/c we have a team like the cubs that have the situation where it makes sense to overpay. Especially if they try to get pitching and Inciarte from us, we could be in a position to get a lot of prospects. I know ppl grown at prospects but the Cubs have very talented guys who could play this year or next, so the projection carries less risk.

In no way do I advocate a Simmons style trade for Inciarte. Equal value does not work. I don't want 4 quarters for a dollar. Not with such a cost controlled and long term controlled piece. I'm thinking more of a Miller for Blair and Swanson type over pay.

And we should be strong on that. Yes Inciarte's numbers could go way down playing in ATL. But it's also possible that the deadline comes and CF and or the 4/5 spots are killing the Cubs and they agree to the overpay.

The guys that do not fit this team are Aybar and Markakis IMO.

Dunit24 said:
I would hold onto Inciarte. I wouldn't trade anyone else really except the older guys like Markakis, Swisher, Bourn,AJ, etc..

Why you ask? With a top 3 pick coming up and the organization going after international players in the coming days, its time we start thinking about holding onto these younger players under control and build a team around them.

We will have Freeman, Swanson, Albies, and Inciarte along with Olivera if he pans out. That's a strong and fast core up the middle.

Saying that, who knows, if Cubs offer us a great package or another team for Inciarte, would be foolish not to do it but I absolutely love what Inciarte will bring to this club for now and the future.
Click to expand...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top