Overreach

[BedellBrave]

I feel for you Dane, but you cannot force people to do something they don't want. They say they will make a cake but not put anything else on it that goes against their beliefs. Personally I would baked the cake with what you want because it does not hurt me in any way. You just have to respect people and their opinions. Being black, I get dissed even today in this town and you know what, I would and have done the same thing you've mentioned, go elsewhere.

Just like Jews and swatzikas

Just like Muslims and pork

Just like Mormons and their many taboos

The Democrats will not touch those three things but if it is the gay community they will be all up in arms about it and will punish you if you do not do what they want you to do against your wishes.

Pushing acceptance in society too quickly will make it worse, not better.

AA, pushing acceptance isn't bad, imho, but nor is it what's actually being pushed. Approval is what is being pushed - thus the thought police rhetoric of gold and others.

 

[jpx7]

That might be the very bloody case many in tears now will take. I hope not.

On a more serious note, employing your same logic: if this swing towards the harder right, and Trump's alt-right populism, were to foment angry hard-line socialist backlash—even revolt—wouldn't I be just as fair and legitimate in saying, "You pushed too far and too fast and with little or no regard for those who aren't in lockstep with your views and you got blowback. You screwed up. Don't blame the enragés, blame yourselves." Or does the too far, too fast only excuse the paroxysms of your side of the ideological spectrum?

 

[Hawk]

The social contract is constantly changing. It changes every time there is a new law enacted. "We the People" have agreed to a broad set of guidelines that define our government. Does that mean that every "person" agrees with every element of that contract? Certainly not. But in order to reap the benefits of the freedoms we all enjoy, we cannot fully enjoy total liberty in our actions.

That's one interpretation. Gauthier's is much more applicable in this discussion it would seem, though.

 

[thethe]

AA, pushing acceptance isn't bad, imho, but nor is it what's actually being pushed. Approval is what is being pushed - thus the thought police rhetoric of gold and others.

How about new accepted languages being taught at colleges? Basically stripping words out of the language as if they are evil. It's really scary whats happening at the foundation of our society right now. This is more than just learning how to love one another. That is just the cover for the real goal.

 

[thethe]

On a more serious note, employing your same logic: if this swing towards the harder right, and Trump's alt-right populism, were to foment angry hard-line socialist backlash—even revolt—wouldn't I be just as fair and legitimate in saying, "You pushed too far and too fast and with little or no regard for those who aren't in lockstep with your views and you got blowback. You screwed up. Don't blame the enragés, blame yourselves." Or does the too far, too fast only excuse the paroxysms of your side of the ideological spectrum?

If language is being changed or if the ability to have free thoughts on any issue changes then yes you should have that stand.

 

[BedellBrave]

On a more serious note, employing your same logic: if this swing towards the harder right, and Trump's alt-right populism, were to foment angry hard-line socialist backlash—even revolt—wouldn't I be just as fair and legitimate in saying, "You pushed too far and too fast and with little or no regard for those who aren't in lockstep with your views and you got blowback. You screwed up. Don't blame the enragés, blame yourselves." Or does the too far, too fast only excuse the paroxysms of your side of the ideological spectrum?

Believe you me, Trump still scares me and I find the whole fringe white supremacist movement repugnant. Remember I wasn't a Trump guy and hated seeing the RR go to him. And it was in part what so frustrated me about the Left.

 

[Hawk]

I was going to say the same thing.

"Straight out of Central Casting."

 

[goldfly]

How about new accepted languages being taught at colleges? Basically stripping words out of the language as if they are evil.

is that why you keep using tyranny the way you are?

 

[goldfly]

thus the thought police rhetoric of gold and others.

the irony of the religious right to talk about thought police but

i am in no way and haven't said that people should be locked up for the stupid things they think

 

[thethe]

is that why you keep using tyranny the way you are?

Tyranny is defined by cruel and oppressive rule. I cannot think of many things more cruel than not allowing people to have free will.

Cogito ergo sum.

 

[jpx7]

Wow. I kind of figured that's where your ideology was but man is crazy to see it in writing. But I suppose you feel my stances are just as radical.

I'm actually not a very radical socialist at all. Also—and I'm not sure it really needs clarifying/reiterating, given my posting history—I do not advocate for the violent supplanting of the capitalist order (nor violence in general).

 

[BedellBrave]

the irony of the religious right to talk about thought police but

i am in no way and haven't said that people should be locked up for the stupid things they think

Though I love the Magisterial Reformers, I am no advocate of their view of church/state in this fallen world.

Leftists often are though. They just have a different conception of "church" - well at least their own.

 

[BedellBrave]

I'm actually not a very radical socialist at all. Also—and I'm not sure it really needs clarifying/reiterating, given my posting history—I do not advocate for the violent supplanting of the capitalist order (nor violence in general).

I can't see it being anything but violent - and bloody - at least in the near term. Have a generation or two die off and it may be different.

 

[thethe]

I'm actually not a very radical socialist at all. Also—and I'm not sure it really needs clarifying/reiterating, given my posting history—I do not advocate for the violent supplanting of the capitalist order (nor violence in general).

What precedence exists that shows this would be better for the people? You are fighting for something that is significantly worse than the system we currently live under.

 

[Oklahomahawk]

Tyranny is defined by cruel and oppressive rule. I cannot think of many things more cruel than not allowing people to have free will.

Cogito ergo sum.

If we could just get a few more people "cogito-ing" maybe some of this mess would eventually get cleaned up.

 

[Jaw]

But that runs both ways. I am in my 60s and I remember when the whole political correctness argument ran the other way. If you weren't in favor of bombing the Vietnamese back to the Stone Age, you were considered a communist sympathizer. The whole Red Scare thing was alive and well and ruined many careers in the 1950s and 1960s.

Judging by the current political atmosphere, I would argue that perhaps the Red Scare movement should have been stronger.

I can see all sorts of enterprises using the cover of religion to justify a number of activities that will further divide this country by allowing religious (and I use the term very loosely) to basically secede from the social contract.

Where can we get a copy of this social contract?

That obviously comes across as snarky, but it sure seems like something that could be construed as the dreaded "living, breathing document", always changing for the sake of contemporary political expediency.

 

[sturg33]

I wouldn't applaud. Mike Pence should drink where he wants (as long as he's wearing shirt and shoes). Who knows, he's got a look that might get him hit on.

Well you're a completely reasonable person. Most on your side simply aren't.

I watched the left applaud the cast of Hamilton when they wanted to dress down Pence. He should have just been able to enjoy the show like everyone else, right?

And as Bedell mentioned, different rules for the left. I really feel most badly for Melania in all this... She has been eviscerated from the tolerant left just because she happens to be in the middle.

 

[sturg33]

I can't find it, but I recently posted here how some colleges are teaching their kids to ask for proper introductions of what gender they are speaking with.

It's gone so far off the deep end that it's almost impossible to defend.

 

[Jaw]

Judging by the current political atmosphere, I would argue that perhaps the Red Scare movement should have been stronger.

I hadn't read far enough. Exhibit A:

I think seizing the means of production is the solution.

 

[thethe]

I can't find it, but I recently posted here how some colleges are teaching their kids to ask for proper introductions of what gender they are speaking with.

It's gone so far off the deep end that it's almost impossible to defend.

This is what I am referring to. Its happening at the ground level. The poisoning of the minds of our youth so that total control can be achieved. Its real scary.