Ozzie Albies thread

Ender likes to name search and block people on twitter if it's not sunshine and roses about him, pro athletes can do petty things...I read on talkingchop that someone said during Ozzie's time in Rome back in 2015 when he went to a bar he was loud and rude when he realized he couldn't drink (gotta also remember that these Latin/Dutch countries have different regulations with drinking age) but it was thought during the year+ since then that he had grown up.
 
Carp said:
Absolutely wouldn't be where we are without them. Also wouldn't be where we are without Folty, Newk, Dansbae, Ender, and Neck (among others).

I think both sides should just be happy neither Hartcoppy nor Wren are at the helm anymore. Hartcoppy did an overall good job rebuilding the talent level in only 3 years but also made a couple of the worst trades in recent memory and got us punished harshly by the MLB. Wren did an overall decent job keeping us competitive on a limited budget and brought Simba into our lives which is good enough for me. But he also completely drained our minor league system of talent, didn't draft well, and made some of the worst FA deals and extensions (Uggla/CJ) in franchise history.
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Agree here. From the end of the Schuerholz regime until the present regime, a number of moves--both good and bad--were made. I agree with Southcack that, for whatever reason, we had become a club in trouble by the end of Wren's tenure. I'm not going to sit here and defend Coppolella's GM version of ADHD, but a change had to be made for a number of reasons.

As for Albies, I haven't met a ton of professional and top-drawer amateur athletes and coaches, but the majority of those I have met do have an attitude about themselves (which may be necessary to succeed at the highest level of competition) and sometimes that translates into boorish behavior.
 
The Feddie deal was not market value at the time. It wasn't a huge discount, but an average annual salary under 17 million was not market value for one of the best 1b in baseball at the time due to become a FA in his mid 20's. Every elite 1b since Tex has signed a deal over 150 million and right around 20 million in annual salary. Adrian Gonzalez's 150 million deal was probably the baseline for Freddie. So figure that we likely got him at least a 2-3 million dollar per year discount conservatively. More than likely closer to 5-6 million per year discount.
 
GeorgiaGirl said:
Ender likes to name search and block people on twitter if it's not sunshine and roses about him, pro athletes can do petty things...I read on talkingchop that someone said during Ozzie's time in Rome back in 2015 when he went to a bar he was loud and rude when he realized he couldn't drink (gotta also remember that these Latin/Dutch countries have different regulations with drinking age) but it was thought during the year+ since then that he had grown up.
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Blocking people on Twitter who criticize you isn’t even a big deal in my opinion. That’s just not wanting to read stuff from “haters” which is pretty normal from pro athletes. If he’s not getting into it like DOB did, he’s doing it okay.

The Ozzie thing is disappointing, but I also like Barry Bonds, so...
 
I don’t know if you can give a GM much credit for low level international signings that become great players. That has more to do with great scouting and building relationships in that country...and luck.

Outside of the big names, a GM likely has no clue as to what a 16 year old from another country plays or looks like. The scout says “He’s worth a chance” and the GM say “ok”.

Albies and Acuna were lucky signs. The scout gets ANY credit on the signings.

Wren had his strengths but glaring weaknesses. He did lock some key guys up, but that was negated by also locking some “other” guys in that were boat anchors.

I loved Coppy’s “scouring the earth for talent mentality”, but his impatience also led him to some really BAD trades and of course breaking rules.

I like AA so far. We might want to have seen moves right now because we were used to Coppy making one weekly, but he is very careful. He’s traded Thor to “win now” and made some bad signings...he’s learned. When we make a move...I feel like it will be a good one.
 
TheBravos said:
I don’t know if you can give a GM much credit for low level international signings that become great players. That has more to do with great scouting and building relationships in that country...and luck.

Outside of the big names, a GM likely has no clue as to what a 16 year old from another country plays or looks like. The scout says “He’s worth a chance” and the GM say “ok”.

Albies and Acuna were lucky signs. The scout gets ANY credit on the signings.

Wren had his strengths but glaring weaknesses. He did lock some key guys up, but that was negated by also locking some “other” guys in that were boat anchors.

I loved Coppy’s “scouring the earth for talent mentality”, but his impatience also led him to some really BAD trades and of course breaking rules.

I like AA so far. We might want to have seen moves right now because we were used to Coppy making one weekly, but he is very careful. He’s traded Thor to “win now” and made some bad signings...he’s learned. When we make a move...I feel like it will be a good one.
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A GM may not put in the leg work, but he does make the decisions on who to sign. He doesn't just sign every amateur player that our scouts say is the next big thing. Now yes, some of it luck as 16, 17, 18 year old kids are extremely hard to project. But it's not much more so than the average minor leaguer. It's doubtful Hartcoppy personally scouted any of the players they drafted or traded for either. They trusted their scouts and made educated decisions based on data we aren't privy to.
 
thewupk said:
It does. We are winning with players largely inherited from the Wren era.
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I do admire the trolling sir, I do admire it.

I think there are six players who were in the organization when Wren was relieved by J.S., HOF.

If we very dubiously give him credit for Freddie Freeman, then the Wren guys are responsible for about half the position WAR on the team.

As far as pitching, the Wren holdover are actually in the negative.

Most wonderfully done, Mr. Wren. Capital!
 
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Here's one more, but this one has a bit of a sad story to it. Acuna not smiling and acting happy in some fan interactions and occasionally upsetting fans by not signing for them. The sad thing here is people getting mad at him and other players like Camargo for not trying to speak English in interviews.
 
I am glad Ozzie is a punk to waiters.

Darryl Strawberry was having relations with women in the dugout during games.

I don't want my ball players to be angels.
 
I'm pretty sure the Dian Toscano "signing" was related to the bundling that was going on in Latin America and not actually really wanting Toscano the player.
 
GeorgiaGirl said:
Here's one more, but this one has a bit of a sad story to it. Acuna not smiling and acting happy in some fan interactions and occasionally upsetting fans by not signing for them. The sad thing here is people getting mad at him and other players like Camargo for not trying to speak English in interviews.
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I saw an interview with Camargo and he spoke English the entire way through. Given the age when a lot of these guys were signed and their likely backgrounds, a number of the Latin players probably aren't highly educated and probably have enough trouble with the grammar in their own language. Please don't take that as a blanket statement, but a lot of the Latin players--especially those from the Dominican Republic--come from dirt poor backgrounds and may have only been in school sporadically.
 
Carp said:
The Feddie deal was not market value at the time. It wasn't a huge discount, but an average annual salary under 17 million was not market value for one of the best 1b in baseball at the time due to become a FA in his mid 20's. Every elite 1b since Tex has signed a deal over 150 million and right around 20 million in annual salary. Adrian Gonzalez's 150 million deal was probably the baseline for Freddie. So figure that we likely got him at least a 2-3 million dollar per year discount conservatively. More than likely closer to 5-6 million per year discount.
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They effectively paid Freeman:

8m in Arb 1 (including the signing bonus)
8.5 in Arb 2
12m in Arb 3

Then they got 5/106.5 at a 21.3 avg.

It's worked out nicely. Bit risky on a breakout season perhaps.
 
Carp said:
The Feddie deal was not market value at the time. It wasn't a huge discount, but an average annual salary under 17 million was not market value for one of the best 1b in baseball at the time due to become a FA in his mid 20's. Every elite 1b since Tex has signed a deal over 150 million and right around 20 million in annual salary. Adrian Gonzalez's 150 million deal was probably the baseline for Freddie. So figure that we likely got him at least a 2-3 million dollar per year discount conservatively. More than likely closer to 5-6 million per year discount.
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The thing about most contracts is by definition they are market value when made. After all 2 people are enough to make a market. So to say something is market value is to say nothing. Ex post the curtain is drawn back and we see what actually happened. The Melvin Upton contract was market too. Ditto for the Uggla extension. I don't mind dinging Wren for those and giving him credit for the Freeman/Simmons/Kimbrel extensions.
 
Southcack77 said:
I do admite the trolling sir, I do admire it.

I think there are six players who were in the organization when Wren was relieved by J.S., HOF.

If we very dubiously give him credit for Freddie Freeman, then the Wren guys are responsible for about half the position WAR on the team.

As far as pitching, the Wren holdover are actually in the negative.

Most wonderfully done, Mr. Wren. Capital!
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Why don't we take a look shall we?

Wren players

Freeman - 3.6
Albies - 3.6
Camargos - 1.4
Acuna - 0.5

Coppy players

Catchers - 2.2
Swanson - 1.2
Markakis - 2.6
Inciarte - 1.2



Players acquired by Coppy using Wren assets
Folty - 2.1 (Gattis - 0.7)
Newcomb - 1.3 (Simmons - 3.7)
Wisler - 0 (Kimbrel - 1.2)
Olivera - not in baseball (Wood - 1.7)


Hmmm, by my count, Wren is directly responsible for 9.1 fWAR on this year's team (he was GM. 4 years ago). Coppy directly responsible for 8.7 (he was GM last year), and Coppy managed to turn 7.3 WAR from Wren into 3.4 present day wins.

Meanwhile, when you consider the future value of the team, you'd take out Markakis and the catchers, which result in more than half of Coppys WAR this year.
 
Carp said:
A GM may not put in the leg work, but he does make the decisions on who to sign. He doesn't just sign every amateur player that our scouts say is the next big thing. Now yes, some of it luck as 16, 17, 18 year old kids are extremely hard to project. But it's not much more so than the average minor leaguer. It's doubtful Hartcoppy personally scouted any of the players they drafted or traded for either. They trusted their scouts and made educated decisions based on data we aren't privy to.
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It gets a little silly to give one GM credit for something you wouldn't give the other. So take the signings at face value.

In the end, it doesn't really improve Wren's case that these are all that's left of seven years of his control over drafts, signings, and player development.
 
sturg33 said:
Why don't we take a look shall we?

Wren players

Freeman - 3.6
Albies - 3.6
Camargos - 1.4
Acuna - 0.5

Coppy players

Catchers - 2.2
Swanson - 1.2
Markakis - 2.6
Inciarte - 1.2



Players acquired by Coppy using Wren assets
Folty - 2.1 (Gattis - 0.7)
Newcomb - 1.3 (Simmons - 3.7)
Wisler - 0 (Kimbrel - 1.2)
Olivera - not in baseball (Wood - 1.7)


Hmmm, by my count, Wren is directly responsible for 9.1 fWAR on this year's team (he was GM. 4 years ago). Coppy directly responsible for 8.7 (he was GM last year), and Coppy managed to turn 7.3 WAR from Wren into 3.4 present day wins.

Meanwhile, when you consider the future value of the team, you'd take out Markakis and the catchers, which result in more than half of Coppys WAR this year.
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That didn't show what you think it showed.
 
sturg33 said:
Why don't we take a look shall we?

Wren players

Freeman - 3.6
Albies - 3.6
Camargos - 1.4
Acuna - 0.5

Coppy players

Catchers - 2.2
Swanson - 1.2
Markakis - 2.6
Inciarte - 1.2



Players acquired by Coppy using Wren assets
Folty - 2.1 (Gattis - 0.7)
Newcomb - 1.3 (Simmons - 3.7)
Wisler - 0 (Kimbrel - 1.2)
Olivera - not in baseball (Wood - 1.7)


Hmmm, by my count, Wren is directly responsible for 9.1 fWAR on this year's team (he was GM. 4 years ago). Coppy directly responsible for 8.7 (he was GM last year), and Coppy managed to turn 7.3 WAR from Wren into 3.4 present day wins.

Meanwhile, when you consider the future value of the team, you'd take out Markakis and the catchers, which result in more than half of Coppys WAR this year.
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So next year is likely to yield an even bigger difference between the Golden Wrens and the Coppy's Floppies
 
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